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17, closeted and otherwise exceedingly boring...

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magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
February 22, 2008, 20:16

Great post Sandy, thankyou for your openess and honesty. Being true to God and yourself is a good place to be. I had a brief fall away from God many years ago but as you say, he still stayed with me but it was me who didnt acknowledge Him, I missed him sooo much and reconnected thankfully not long after and he just picked up where I left off.


I too dont push anyone to follow their sexuality unless they feel comfortable about that, if they want to stay celibate that is cool, if not that is cool, its between them and God. I once turned off my emotions and did the asexual path but also found like William that it dulled other areas of my life too, its not good. We are meant to feel, otherwise we wouldnt have been given emotions and other feelings, we shouldnt be ruled by them but that takes time and no one should bash themselves up if they swing out tooooo far at times, we have all been there at some point.


Its such a journey isnt it? and never a dull moment shock who said being Christian is boring ? far from!!!!!!!!



Shantih Shantih Shantih
 
Joined in 2008
February 23, 2008, 01:44

Reply to Sandy:


Ohhh, wow. So much to write and only so many hours in a night… 🙂 It should be said that I started this post at 11:30 Victorian DST, but by the time I’ve finished it may well be closer to 4:30…(I’m a slow poster, I double and triple check all posts before submitting them).

I’m also a little all over the place (again) – it late, it’s been a long day, and I’m getting a headache – but I’ve been waiting all day to respond and I’m used to a certain amount of sleeplessness.


First of all I should probably clarify what I meant by the phrase, ‘…not on speaking terms…’

I didn’t really mean to suggest that God left me, all it was was my feeble attempt as a (inverted commas 😀 ) “writer” to spruce up my story so that it was more flowing. What I meant was more along the lines of ‘I didn’t pray, read the Bible or do anything else particularly spiritual during the year (ie. pay attention in church, meditate/think on holy/Biblical philosophies, etc.)’.

I do realise how the exact phrasing could lead to the belief that I thought God had abandoned me, and I should have clarified.


Secondly, I absolutely agree with all the fundamental points you made, and I believe that it’s only in specifics that we differ (in fact, I’m really just paraphrasing you with the following points). Anyone can be saved and make it to Heaven if they have accepted Jesus Christ and believe that they are ‘saved by grace through faith‘ – really, this is the only prerequisite of eternal life, the only difficulty is being able to open your heart sufficiently to let God in [*1].

What you said about motives is also very true. I, perhaps, go even further in saying that, just as the only required action for salvation is faith and openness, the only necessity to right living and ‘bearing good fruit’ is good intentions – God will do the rest. I believe this based on a logical sequence: if I open my heart to God and want to do what is right by Him, then the Spirit can work through me; if the Spirit can work through me, then I have done my job, God continues from there.

The ‘glorifying God in your confusion’ thing is very closely related to motives. Essentially, all I am required to do is live, love and be open to God – He is the one who performs the conversions, miracles, and blessings. My state of coherence is of no concern – if He can use me, He will use me; I get no say in the matter. 😀


For my third point I probably need to clarify my stance on homosexuality. I didn’t do it very well the first time, and although you all most likely got the gist, there’s no harm in clearly restating my principles. I’ll do this as a list for clarity’s sake (and the sake of my throbbing head 😀 ):

I am neither a liberal or a conservative on an ideological basis, I have a roughly equal amount of ideals that belong to both camps.

I am a conservative by way of technicality (ie. I believe the Bible to be infallible, I believe Jesus to be the Son of God, I believe God’s primary quality is holiness rather than love, etc.)

As far as the sinfulness of homosexuality goes, I honestly have no idea. I probably lean more toward the pro-gay camp, but when it comes down to it, either one could be right, and I’m forever looking for clues (both Biblical and personal/spiritual) as to which one it might be.


That said, I can move on to the crux of the matter, and what I assume is the ultimate contention of your post: what will I do in regards to my sexuality, live as a practicing or celibate homosexual?

This is probably not the issue you think it is for me. To cut a long story short, I have always felt that it is my lot in life – my God-given destiny, if you will – to be alone. This is not only reflective of intimate, sexual/romantic relationships, but even of familial and friendship relationships. For example, the ‘best friend’ I mentioned in my original post is my only close friend, and what’s more, the dynamic of our relationship dictates that I am always the one to give advice and support, and never (or rarely) to receive it. In some ways, it’s a one-sided friendship because I don’t get to feel like I have someone to trust. This, however, is not something I regard as out of the norm, I do not resent him for it or feel myself in any way superior or inferior for it – it is simply what is meant to be [*2][*3]. For the same reason, I very much doubt that I will ever be in an intimate relationship.

Basically, it’s not up to me – it’s whatever God wants. Sure, I’d like to have someone (and here I show my inexperience – most everything I know about the subject of ‘love’ I’ve learnt from romantic comedies 😀 ) who is my…[ahem]…”soulmate”…or that I can love and confide in. Unfortunately for me, unless God puts the situation directly into my lap, it’s not gonna happen. I will not actively seek that end. Period. His will, and not mine, be done. Naturally, I will pray over the issue, but it’s in His hands.


To the remaining two paragraphs I have as much to say as the first ones; that is, I agree completely. It’s not about me. God and His glory come first – always. Heaven is (as you said) our reward for this, but our point and purpose is nothing but to honour him.


I think that’s all… 🙂


[*1] Of course, this is not an excuse for sin, and theoretically, once you have been saved then the Holy Spirit should guide you in the right directions, but that is not to say you will come to all the right conclusions.

It should be noted that I give this subject too little attention, it’s more complex than that, but perhaps it should be saved for another post on another day.

[*2] “We are here on Earth to do good to others. What the others are here for, I don’t know.” – W. H. Auden

[*3] It’s worth mentioning (gee, I use that phrase a lot), that I believe in a certain amount of fate or predestination – not in everything, but I don’t think that all events in life are at the whim of our own free will. Some things are supposed to be, and we can’t change them.



Shantih Shantih Shantih
 
Joined in 2008
February 23, 2008, 02:02

Reply to Magsdee:


Thanks for the feedback. The fact that what I wrote was a result of naturally progressive thought has it’s advantages, but I thought it became a bit disjointed, too. Also, I do tend to write the way I’d speak in mediums like this (as much as possible – obviously I don’t use footnotes in regular speech 😆 ), but again, this has it’s downsides…


Oh, well. I guess if people can stand to read it without being bored silly or screaming obscenities at their computer screens, then it will suffice… 😀



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
February 23, 2008, 08:06

busy here aren’t we.



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
February 23, 2008, 08:55

Secondly, I absolutely agree with all the fundamental points you made, and I believe that it’s only in specifics that we differ (in fact, I’m really just paraphrasing you with the following points). Anyone can be saved and make it to Heaven if they have accepted Jesus Christ and believe that they are ‘saved by grace through faith‘ – really, this is the only prerequisite of eternal life, the only difficulty is being able to open your heart sufficiently to let God in [*1].

What you said about motives is also very true. I, perhaps, go even further in saying that, just as the only required action for salvation is faith and openness, the only necessity to right living and ‘bearing good fruit’ is good intentions – God will do the rest. I believe this based on a logical sequence if I open my heart to God and want to do what is right by Him, then the Spirit can work through me; if the Spirit can work through me, then I have done my job, God continues from there.

The ‘glorifying God in your confusion’ thing is very closely related to motives. Essentially, all I am required to do is live, love and be open to God – He is the one who performs the conversions, miracles, and blessings. My state of coherence is of no concern – if He can use me, He will use me; I get no say in the matter. D



Will, that is just so true……..if we are available to Him it is amazing what he does through us. Personally I absolutely love the Holy Spirit.



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
February 23, 2008, 23:27

I have always felt that it is my lot in life – my God-given destiny, if you will – to be alone. This is not only reflective of intimate, sexual/romantic relationships, but even of familial and friendship relationships.


There are two things I am told constantly and they both drive me up the wall with frustration. The first are the words “thats so sad” in responce to the way I choose to live in relation to my same-sex attraction and the second is when people decide you are too young and too inexperienced to know what you really want. So I’m not going to say those things to you about the above quote.


What I will say is keep your options open. If it is ‘fate’ that you are to remain a recluse even to the point of not having friendships then it will happen naturally. The same God that condemns homosexuality also said “it is not good for man to be alone”. We need other people in our lives that we can rely on and trust with our feelings. In my experience (and remember this is all subjective not fact) gay people who are celibate or even chaste need friendship more than those who gain the same kinds of support from immediate family, partners or lovers.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
February 24, 2008, 09:13

singledom has been rarely honoured in the church. If you are not with someone then its a little like being the last one picked in the playground at school for the cricket team. Everyone knows what a lousy player you are so they are hoping you’ll end up on the other side.


Finding the Boyfriend Within is a great book for gay guys about finding happiness in yourself and not another person or relationship.


We do have an obsession with romantic love in western culture. Whilst I know that other cultural practices are not aways enlightened……..some times they demonstrate that love can be a choice.



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
February 24, 2008, 10:53

LOL, if love were a choice my life would be a whole lot easier, l spend most of my time and emotional engery making sure I am maintaining emotional and physical boundaries with women so as not to fall in love! But then love just wouldn’t be love if it was a choice in the same way picking out a pair of shoes is, and thats about as sentimental as I get I’m afraid 😆 .


I agree that singledom is rarely honoured but I would also say that the grass is always greener on the other side. Many single people desire to marry and many married people wish they hadn’t married person x or hadn’t married at all. It’s about looking at someone elese outsides the family, affection and intimacy of a family that single people assume marrieds have and married people see the freedom, time and money that single people have. No one really thinks about the negative aspects on the other side.


We think that marriage, partnership or singleness would solve all our problems in one way or another whereas in reality they tend to create more. 😆



Shantih Shantih Shantih
 
Joined in 2008
February 24, 2008, 23:00

I know what you mean about people thinking you’re too young to know anything. I know the Biblical arguments for pacifism and non-violence back and forth (most of them I actually came up with myself from reading Scripture and studying), but as soon as I have my opponent up against a wall, out comes the rather childish response, ‘Yeah, well…you’re only 16 – you don’t know anything, you’re not a theologian.’ All you can do then is take a few deep breaths, unclench your fists, and just try to accept that there’s no way to come back from that…


Anyway, I understand where you’re coming from, Sandy, and I do try and keep my options open, as you said. But…I don’t know…it’s just that every time I hear someone say something like, ‘God doesn’t ask us to go through life alone,’ or quote that verse you mentioned (Genesis 2:18 ), it’s like a voice starts up in the back of my mind saying that this doesn’t apply to me. Perhaps it’s just some sort of ‘Lone Ranger’ complex, perhaps it’s a result of my emotional disconnection – but in all honesty, it doesn’t feel that way. No doubt I have more growing to do emotionally and psychologically, and there is every chance that in time – even if the fact doesn’t change – the effect on me will be nullified and I’ll be able to be completely content in just being there for others. But for now all I can do is pray and let God sort it out. ‘Let go, and let God’, as they say.


Of course, logically, it’s probably better for me to remain single anyway. As desired as a relationship might be, they’re completely foreign to me. Seeing all the people in relationships around me, I just can’t imagine how someone could function on such an intimate level with someone else.


I’ll have to look up that book you mentioned, Anthony. It should be helpful. Who’s it written by?



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
February 25, 2008, 09:47

http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Boyfriend-Within-Practical-Happiness/dp/0743225309


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