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50 years old

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Ambrose
 
Joined in 2013
May 24, 2013, 08:09

This is my story which I hope will help others.


My story is perhaps a little different to most but here goes. I was brought by an Evangelical mother and grandmother and attended an evangelical church as a teenager. I loved the church and being involved in it and was a very devout teenager. However, what made my upbringing different was that my father was a sceptic and on the Left politically so that the upbringing he gave me brought an entirely different set of perspectives. As a teen and young adult, I tried to put it all together and explored Latin American Liberation theology and also became involved in political activism with various Left groups. Although my situation was spiritually and intellectually isolating (I could hardly talk about my politics at Church nor my religion with my Leftist friends), I managed by compartmentalising my life. Add to this the realisation that I was gay.


I found being in the Church too hard against this background and gradually drifted away. I did not even think it worthwhile talking to the minister about my sexuality because I knew where that would go. So I just left of my own accord – unlike others who once their sexuality became know were basically shown the door. This was in the 80s.


Although I battled bouts of depression and anxiety in my twenties, in hindsight, what saved me from a complete downward spiral was what my father gave me, namely a coherent alternative world view that could hold me together. I did not accept everything he put to me but did accept a commitment to social justice and got involved in political and activism both an Uni and afterwards that provided a strong framework for getting on with life, buttressed by a “social theology” – even while I struggled with my sexuality. I finished Uni and entered my chosen profession and was on any conventional measure seen as successful – even though people did ask me why I never showed up with a girlfriend. Most importantly, my father taught me to stand my ground and fight when you had to – hard if necessary – a skill which held me in good stead dealing with homophobia after coming out.


After finishing Uni and entering the workforce, I came out in my late twenties having accepted myself that I was gay. My family were troubled but in the end accepting – as were my close friends. I launched myself on the gay scene in the early 90s – and though I made many friends, cannot say I really liked it much, especially, the emphasis on looking for casual sex. Those were a troubled few years. However, I met my life partner after about two years on the scene (we have now been together for 18 years and we plan to get married next year overseas). Both our working lives went well, we established a household together came to enjoy a close relationship with both our families.


Only one thing was missing, namely how to deal with my faith. I never lost it but had to keep quiet about it. I was in the position of being out to everyone as a gay man, family, friends and at work but in the closet about being Christian. I would try to practice my faith in private, through my own Bible study – and quiet engagement with Christian friends. Going to Church was not an option as accepting congregations were few. I was afraid of being open to my some members of my family and friends by matters of faith, especially gay friends, for fear of the reaction. They could rightly say that it was people like them, straight and gay, who did the heavy lifting fighting for my rights and may have seen it as a almost a betrayal for me go over to people they would see as the enemy. The outbursts of people like Jim Wallace and the ACL certainly gave them a good case.


At the age of 50, I have slowly started to come out as a Christian to those nearest to me. I approached a local Church and explained to the minister in full my circumstances. I was worried about rejection but I received a very warm reply and welcome and am now wondering to myself why I did not approach him sooner. My partner initially had misgivings but is kind of getting his head around it all. He feared maybe that this could impact on our relationship. However, it does not at all from my perspective. I told him that I was cool with wherever he stood – whether as an atheist, agnostic, or believer. This was quite easy given that I was brought by an Atheist father (I think that the comments Paul makes about non-believers who still have the law written on their hearts makes me very comfortable theologically with this). I also proposed marriage to him at the time – and I think that has in part helped him accept where I am heading without worrying. He even came to Church with me, was warmly received by the minister, liked the experience and saw that we were accepted for who we are as a couple. He wants to go again.


We are also about to embark on becoming foster parents to children in need and have done a lot of reading on the subject which has been inspiring and encouraging. It appears that some agencies specifically want same-sex male couples to undertake the job, party because of the shortage of male role models for boys and there is a view that gay couples are an untapped resource could fit the bill. I am not sure where it will go but if this means we end up starting a family of sorts (even at our ages – we are both 50), that is where we go God willing.


What I would say to some of the others on this blog who have has a hard time is do not underestimate the possibilities open to you – however hard it may seem at the present. If you set your mind on it and learn to hold your ground with firmness, you can go places that even ten years ago were unimaginable for gay people including a full life in the Church, marriage and family.


I also think that there is a real shift in thinking within the Churches on accepting gay people. Rev Keith Mascord’s sermons in support of us – and of gay marriage for example, may reflect the new thinking – even if the Churches are lagging secular society by a couple of decades. I also believe that there are Churches in the US that are now refusing to perform any marriages at all – until gay marriage is legalised. So while things may seem hard, there is more reason I think for optimism than pessimism.


Then main challenge for me at my stage of life is dealing with friends and family with coming out of the closet as a Christian. While I feel confident in standing my ground against homophobes in the Church (I have spent the last year immersing myself in the relevant theology even going as far as starting to learn Greek to acquire the confidence to argue the case), I am more hesitant in coming out to the secular friends and family who have loyally stood by me over the years, some of whom are militant atheists of the Richard Dawkins kind.


I think that the answer in part lies in convincing them that the ACL and its ilk are not representative but there is need for the “silent majority” of Christians which I think is with us (at least measured by support for gay marriage as a litmus test) to speak up. I think it will also help in dispelling the misgivings of secular people if the Churches deal with homophobia in the way that the Dutch Reformed Church in the end dealt with Apartheid by moving from a position of justifying it to ending up declaring it a heresy. Theologically, I think that a strong case can be made for identifying homophobia as a heresy – and the way forward here may be found in some of the writings of Archbishop (emeritus) Desmond Tutu. This is one outspoken churchman I can think who can be held up to the world at large without any hesitation or reticence as what we as Christians are on about, His credentials in the fight against racism during the Apartheid era, reconciliation afterwards his support for the ordination of women – and now his championing of us goes a along way in finding a Christian role model (and there are many others) to help convincing secular people who readily accept us as gay people to accept us as Christians.


A final observation I would make is that while I did not end up doing drugs, alcohol abuse and risky sex during my time of trials, others from the Church, who forced out commonly did so. The difference I think was that their whole life was the Church and to have that suddenly removed from under them, created a bad set of circumstances leading to a downward spiral. The difference was that I had other networks of support through what my father gave me. It is really important to have more than one support network, especially for young gay people so that there is somewhere to go if the Church fails you. It could be as simple as looking around at local community groups that are gay-friendly and joining a group that interests you. It takes time of course to develop close trusted relationships. I also learnt that developing close relations with people outside one’s tribe also in the end strengthens your faith and deepens spiritual life because you see God working everywhere – not just in your own little corner. Jesus’ parable about the Good Samaritan may be apposite when a broken person by the roadside is abandoned and ignored by their own – but it is an outsider who follows God’s command and helps. The message appears to be that help sometimes comes from that outsider when your own ignore you.


Some thoughts anyway – and hopefully reasons for optimism.


Peace!



Sophia Chokhmah
 
Joined in 2011
May 24, 2013, 10:26

Ambrose, thank you so much for taking the time to post this! What an interesting journey you had had thus far. Thanks for all the encouragement 🙂



DavidLG
Event Coordinator
Joined in 2009
May 24, 2013, 13:43

Great hearing your story and thanks for that encouragement 🙂



ShadowBoxer
Moderator
Joined in 2005
May 25, 2013, 21:35

Ambrose


Thanks for posting your story.


Its interesting that although our journeys a diifferent – some of the things you note in your post resonate with me….


My partner is an atheist. Many christians think the verse "Do not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers" means do not have a relationship with non christians. BUT I think its saying something deeper and more important.

What its saying is make sure that you are in a relationship with someone whose values are compatible with your own. I know christians – whose values I DO NOT RESPECT at all. I believe that a relationship with them would have me unevely yoked because their values are (in my opinion) way out of kilter with biblical teaching.

By the same token – I have been with my partner for nearly 14 years now. Despite the fact he is an atheist – he cares about the poor, the homeless, the sick and those in jail – Just as Jesus commanded us to. He believes in truth and Justice. He would (and Ive seen him) sacrifice him self to help others (and I dont mean his life of course but in other ways) – Greater love hath no man. He shows this….. And he respects my values and beliefs and I respect his. We are evenly yoked.


In fact – whilst my parents WERE both believers they often went to different churches and that made them stronger. The ability to tolerate other opinions and to see other points of view allows us to grow and to see our own errors as well as to help others see theirs… So Its good that your partner is understanding….


I also really liked your remark about developing relationships outside of your tribe

I think its less common now than it used to be – but its good for people to establish relationships – local community, common interest groups, current and ex work colleagues – these are all good social networks to be active (and OUT in) as well as church or just you gay friends..


Great story. Thanks for posting



Ambrose
 
Joined in 2013
May 26, 2013, 12:50

Thanks Shadow Boxer. Yes – I agree with what you say about marrying non-Christians. Where you are married to a non-Christian and become a Christian, the teaching is also very clear –stay together (1 Corinthians 7:10-17).


The passage about non-Christians in Romans 2: 12-16 also do not I think receive the emphasis they perhaps should. The “gentiles do not have the law but whenever they do by instinct what the law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not have the law. Their conduct shows that what the Law commands written on their hearts”. I have always found in this passage a lot of comfort in appreciating the “good fruit” that those who have given us in fighting for our rights including atheists – even where our own have only too often delivered truly bad fruit.


Yes – I also agree that voluntary community activity does seem to be less than it used to be and that is a real loss. I have always found the experience of working with people in community groups (most of whom are not Christian) incredibly rewarding. And for gay people who find themselves pushed out of the Church, working with for example outreach groups for refugees and prisoners provides a great way to engage with other people, and also do something really valuable which provides healing it is own way. May be that is what is meant by the teaching that “there is more happiness in giving than in receiving “ (Acts 20:35).



Michelle
President
Joined in 2008
May 29, 2013, 19:10

Hi Ambrose

I would like to welcome you to freedom2b and thank you so much for sharing your story with us 🙂

You really have a unique journey and I appreciate you taking the time to write it all down in the hope it will help others. I found it fascinating that you had two very different approaches with your parents but the two worked together for you, through your young adulthood, to help keep you grounded and give you strength when needed.

It's lovely to hear you have found long term happiness with your partner, soon to be spouse 🙂 and that together you wish to foster children, challenging but so rewarding (I have 4 teens)

It would be good to know what church you are attending as others often seek welcoming churches to attend. I look forward to chatting again 🙂

Warm regards

Michelle



Ambrose
 
Joined in 2013
May 30, 2013, 16:24

Hi Michelle

I am filled with admiration that you can foster 4 teenagers all at once! That is an inspiration!


On you question of what Church I am talking about, I was brought up in the Anglican Church, in the Sydney Evangelical tradition. The website for Changing Attitudes lists a number of Anglican churches that are opening their doors. I have been in contact with two in the Inner West in Sydney and have been going to one regularly. The links take you to similar churches in other denominations including Catholic and Uniting churches.


Many of the accepting churches in the Anglican communion tend to follow a “High Church” style of worship which may take a bit of getting used to if you are come from an evangelical or other Protestant tradition. I have family in England where the form of worship is more High Church so I am quite used to it through visiting my English family. If you prefer a more simple liturgical form, maybe approach one of the Uniting churches listed in the “Uniting Network” website.


As to how I made contact, I took a while to muster the courage but started out by sending an email to the Minister without any introduction from anyone – setting out in full my history and circumstances – and was not sure what the response would be. I got an incredibly warm and welcoming reply and the next week, I attended service – and every week since then. I have not sensed any problem with members of the congregation (if any) who may might take a different view to that of the minister and the majority of the congregation but do feel like I am breaking new ground – and so far, it has been wonderful.


During my long period of non-attendance at Church, I did maintain close friendships with a number of Christian friends, who in hindsight were a spiritual lifeline and held my hand and helped maintain my faith. My friends over the years included both Catholics and Protestants and having left the Church to find God, as the quip goes, one of the really wonderful aspects of the experience though sometimes isolating and lonely was to exchange views with and get to know Catholic, Greek Orthodox and other believers and their traditions and really understand and appreciate the rich diversity within the Body of Christ. When I told some of them what I was going to do and try to join a congregation, more than one cautioned me and told me to be careful. I have heeded their advice but so far, I have not found any reluctance on the part of the congregation to have my partner and me sitting in the pews. But it is early days.


Church politics of course is notorious. I think was Jack Lang who said that if you think Macquarie Street is bad for its rough and tumble, wait till you see the Anglican synod! So while there are an increasing number of accepting Churches, they are a minority and to some extent may face a tough time in dealing with the hierarchy in choosing the course they have taken by opening their doors to us. That too needs to be borne in mind in working out how one engages with an accepting Church.


Hope that information about finding accepting Churches is useful – and I am sure already known to many of the people on the forum.



Michelle
President
Joined in 2008
May 31, 2013, 19:38

Hi Ambrose

Just to clarify my 4teens are not fostered, although I have uofficially done that previously! The 4 I have are 2 daughters of my own and 2 boys from my partner.

Cheers

Michelle



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
June 4, 2013, 18:25

Hi Ambrose

Great story – thanks for sharing and welcome from me too! 🙂

You said:


I was in the position of being out to everyone as a gay man, family, friends and at work but in the closet about being Christian.


How true it is that coming out isn't just limited to sexuality. And when your family or friends are not in favour of Christianity, as can be the case in the LGBTI community due to being rejected by the church, then that is another process of carefully guaging who you can share this with and finding the right supports.

I agree that people sometimes engage in risky behaviours as a result of being judged and shunned rather than because they are gay. If major supports aren't in place, such as what might be hoped for from a church, people may go looking for support in other places and accept pseudo support or make poor choices because they seem better than nothing.

Congratulations to you and your partner for finding each other and for looking to foster children. 🙂

Blessings,

Ann Maree



Ambrose
 
Joined in 2013
June 5, 2013, 17:32

Thanks for the clarification Michelle – wonderful in either case.


New data suggests that same sex parents raise healthier kids than the average.


http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/samesex-parents-raising-healthier-kids-20130605-2npxf.html


While encouraging, makes me feel a little uncomfortable. We may need to show that we as good as anyone else – but we should not have to show that we are better.


Thanks for your encouragement as well Ann Maree!


On the matter of "coming out" as a gay Christian, my partner and I were at Bishop Robinson’s talk at the Paddington Uniting Church a couple of weeks ago – and some you have may have been there also. I went expecting to learn about gay marriage but found it to be an amazing and uplifting experience on a much deeper level, almost as if you could sense the Holy Spirit at work. I thought it was just me – but a week later at Church, one of the other members of the congregation who was there (not gay) said something similar and thought that she came away with something more than just hearing about gay marriage – and talked about being spiritually refreshed and re-invigorated. Later, I spoke to a (straight) atheist friend who had heard the bishop speak and said “I am an atheist, but if anyone can make me believe in God, it's this guy”.


That got me thinking that could it be that there are people prepared to listen to a gay Christian who would completely shut down when it is someone like the ACL trying the deliver the same message?


I think that many church leaders may now beginning to understand that the misogynistic and homophobic positions they take are causing terrible damage to their reputations and harming their ability to connect with people and the broader Australian community. Maybe this is why we see some Churches trying to reach accommodations with us in ways that might have been unimaginable even ten years ago – even if the very stubborn like Fred Nile continue to hold on to their old ways.


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