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Christian Spiritual Churches

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frogger
 
Joined in 2005
December 30, 2008, 13:58

Elizabeth and I still sing at a pentecostal chruch. Our relationship is not accepted, but we are still free to worship. It is just seen as a theological difference, which I really respect.

I have no issue going to Hillsong. My parents attend Hillsong City and they are fairly okay with our relationship and as my parents are fairly well known in the church, we have a number of the pastors etc come to my parents partis, to dinner etc ad they all know about us and are very accepting. Maybe not in agreeance, but accepting. A few pastors who are quite accepting for example are Donna Crouch, Darlene Zchech, and the missions pastor at City Hillsong. They dont think it is a “good” choice, but they are very accepting and very very normal with us, accept our family and accept us.


Not all pentecostals (for example) are judgemental. I know lots of accepting pentecostals, catholics, baptists, non-denominational people… i mean hundreds of people.



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
December 30, 2008, 17:19

Hi Jannah,


Thanks for your reply. I also know lots of Christians back in Brisbane who are very accepting, even if some of them don’t ‘get’ it or ‘agree’ with the choices I have made. That is not really my problem.


As a matter of fact, in my offline life, I have never been personally confronted (mainly because I was never out then) by anyone at a church I attended, for my orientation. It’s only been those sideswipes you get from listening to preaching on homosexuality, or someone making comments about ‘those people’ in a Bible study, but those have stung me just as much as it would if the person speaking was saying those things to or about me, personally.


Where I live now, I am in a rural area, small town, everyone knows everyone etc, and I am concerned about letting people know too much, although some of my friends here know.


Living in country areas can be markedly different to living in the city as I have lived in both, and know the difference.


I guess I am just trying to work out where I can go and how much I can say as I don’t want to make my life here uncomfortable.



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
December 30, 2008, 20:38

I understand where youre coming from Magz, small communities can make life difficult once they get a hold of something they dont like much, for the people living there.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
January 2, 2009, 16:33

Anthony, how do you find the courage to attend Hills CLC? I am literally terrified to set foot inside any mainstream church lest they ‘find out’ about me, which they would eventually, because I don’t make a secret of who I am.

How do you do it? *sigh*


You’ve asked a good question Mazdragon which made me think quite a bit about this. There are actually a number of reasons why I attend Hillsong.

I remember the first time I returned to church after several years absence. I have to admit it wasn’t easy. I was feeling very nervous. As you might remember from my autobiography, that even though I got some weird comments (Frank was still the pastor then) it was a very empowering experience. I walked out of there knowing I had genuinely resolved all conflict with my faith and sexuality and nothing anyone could say or do to me ever again would shake that confidence.


There were actually several attempts to return to church which were not consistent. I actually felt that my experience with God had become so rich out of the church I didn’t really see any need to attend.


Then came the book. (which I really feel God told me to write)


I guess that was the turning point. I had naively thought that once I told my story that then I could just get on with my life and I’d done my job. As you know….that produced and avalanche of emails from readers. Most of the stories they told me broke my heart. Some were very tragic and sad. All reflected the terrible ignorance that existed in churches about sexual orientation. This prompted me to do try and make contact with the national executive of the Assemblies of God.


These emails from readers stirred me so much I knew in all good conscience that I could not sit back and allow the unnecessary suffering I and many others had and were going through to continue. It was then that I felt a sense of mission. I HAVE to do something to change this.




How do I do this I thought?


I felt that I would have more impact by having conversations with people inside the city walls as an ambassador of my community than to be an activist outside the city walls shouting for attention. Inside the city walls people can really see me for what I am as well. That is a gay man of faith and integrity. My life speaks louder than my words and certainly backs up anything I say. No-one can accuse me of being immoral or a trouble maker. I have gained credibility and respect…….even though not everyone sees things as I see them.


Getting close to gay and lesbian people is the major thing that will break down the preconceived ideas and misconceptions. Whilst gay churches are a place of sanctuary and healing for many gay Christians the impact they can have on the larger church is limited. I do respect that this is God’s calling for some.


I knew someone had to be the first to stand up…...like Rosa Parks did on that bus in 1955…..and was the catalyst for the civil rights movement. So I dared to name myself Australia’s first openly gay Pentecostal knowing that by standing up it would give others courage to do the same. I’ve been contacted by many in Hillsong and other Pentecostal churches who are gay and lesbian but still afraid to be honest with those around them. This of course only reinforces the current situation.


Then Hillsben came out of the woodwork http://www.freedom2b.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3564 and I helped him go through the process of coming out at church with his friends and family. He is the first fruits. Now he is Australia’s second openly gay Pentecostal and even though there are still people who don’t understand he has had lots of support. He is now helping other young people go through what he went through.


In the past we all left or were thrown out of our churches……but not any more.


To be honest with you. I think that many have bought into the media hype that Hillsong is anti-gay. I haven’t found that. In fact Brian has and would never speak negatively about gay and lesbian people from the pulpit. Its not his style or spirit.


Preconceived ideas and misconceptions exist on both sides of the debate.

http://gayambassador2.blogspot.com/


Creating an intelligent, informed respect dialogue is my goal. Even the Assemblies of God Bible College students come and interview me every year and present my interview to their class. Each year there are more and more future leaders who have come to a more compassionate and informed understanding of homosexuality.


Most of what I do I can’t make public…..as to make it public will polarise people and the dialogue will be high jacked by the right wing extremists who don’t even deserve to have their names mentioned. I won’t allow them to take this precious conversation I’m having with others and make it their issue.


What I can tell you is that the work has begun and the momentum is at such a level that it is now only a matter of time. Believe me there is no turning back now.


So I guess that answers your question…..or maybe it raises more.


I hate conflict of any kind and that is probably what keeps me from going to any church unless I am–relatively–sure they will not abuse me or clobber me with those certain Bible passages.


If you really knew me you would also know that I’m just like you. My nature is to be non-confrontational. If I get angry I shut down the dialogue. I won’t waste my time talking with most people who only want to argue. I leave them in their ignorance……..BUT…….there are a huge number who are in the questioning stage…..it’s a delight to talk with them and assist them along their journey to greater understanding of the love and grace of God and that their beliefs about sexual orientation were never based on fact.



oooooo
 
Joined in 2006
January 2, 2009, 20:02

Magz, next time you go to that spiritualist church let me know, if you want company that is


i would not mind checking it out


in fact have been talking to a good friend about it a bit lately, (spiritual things that is) and yeh would be keen to go.



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
January 3, 2009, 00:32

Magz, next time you go to that spiritualist church let me know, if you want company that is


i would not mind checking it out


in fact have been talking to a good friend about it a bit lately, (spiritual things that is) and yeh would be keen to go.


I would be pleased to have some company and moral support when I go. I was planning to call the pastor tomorrow and ask when they will be resuming services for this year. I’ll keep in touch with you about it, either here or via the pm facility here.



oooooo
 
Joined in 2006
January 3, 2009, 10:42

awesome



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
January 3, 2009, 15:35

I’m sure most of you know this already but if not it would be good to mention.


Spiritualist churches are usually churches that believe in Spiritualism and contact with people who have passed on. Readings are often a part of the service and using psychic gifts are encouraged and practised.


I know that for many from our background this is a problem. I’m not saying that is case with you Tez or Mazdragon though.


What I’ve found is that there are people who love God in every church….even roman catholic, mormon, JW and spiritualist…..and of course those who love God and never go to church. Personally I let go of judging others years ago recognising that no one church or person has the truth…..least of all me.


Mazdragon……did my post answer your question.



JR
 
Joined in 2008
January 4, 2009, 00:38

There were actually several attempts to return to church which were not consistent. I actually felt that my experience with God had become so rich out of the church I didn’t really see any need to attend.


Sorry for the sidebar AVB, but can I ask what drove your attempts to return to church? I know that in returning you’ve found ministry and opportunity to make big differences, but what was is that you missed or needed or wanted? You said when you left you felt like you’d resolved things, but after 6 years what was it that made you want to put things aside and try to go back?



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
January 4, 2009, 01:05

I’m sure most of you know this already but if not it would be good to mention.


Spiritualist churches are usually churches that believe in Spiritualism and contact with people who have passed on. Readings are often a part of the service and using psychic gifts are encouraged and practised.


I know that for many from our background this is a problem. I’m not saying that is case with you Tez or Mazdragon though.


What I’ve found is that there are people who love God in every church….even roman catholic, mormon, JW and spiritualist…..and of course those who love God and never go to church. Personally I let go of judging others years ago recognising that no one church or person has the truth…..least of all me.


Mazdragon……did my post answer your question.


Hi Anthony,


I read your answer to my question, and I really appreciated you taking the time to set down all the reasons why you went back to Hills. It’s great that you have done that, and found opportunities to minister, and to continue the conversation from inside — not sure I could do that as well as you do, but it did give me plenty to think about.


I do know that the Spiritualist Church teaches that it is possible to communicate with those who have died, and I don’t find that is a problem for me. I grew up in a home where that kind of thing was not only believed, but practiced and I think that I can handle that. It certainly doesn’t frighten me and as far as what the Bible says about mediums etc…well…if the interpretations we have today can be so wrong on one thing (ie homosexuality) who’s to say they’re not equally inaccurate on that, as well?


I don’t think that anyone has all the truth, either. I believe there are elements of truth in everything. 🙂


I didn’t call the pastor today. I was slack. Will get to it before Monday though, I hope. Feeling quite tired from the ‘holidays’ at present.


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