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Dove Snuggler
Joined in 2007
March 10, 2008, 22:42


John, you quote William in saying “…The thing is, I think, those types of discussions never go anywhere – they’re like the World Wars: four+ years of a stalemate in which neither side gains ground but people still get hurt…”

Well people don’t just get hurt. The 2 world wars caused the deaths of 112 million people (Wikipedia). Perpetuating homophobic views against GLBTIQQ people also causes many untold deaths. I have been confronted by so many suicides myself that I wish the opponents of gay people would think before they speak.

I appreciate that some members of this forum are committed to Fred Nile style rigidity in regard to their biblical view of homosexuality. However, Freedom 2B means emphatically that people are free to express their experience and the meaning of their experience without prejudice.

If I’m wrong, then those who are not welcome on this site need to take our discussion somewhere else. So where?

I vote that there is room for all. And yes, there is a point where we need to get off the roundabout.


Shantih Shantih Shantih
Joined in 2008
March 11, 2008, 00:38

Actually, Kit, in the first draft of that quote I wrote “…people still die…” but I thought it was more analogically appropriate to say, “…get hurt.”

Just so you know.

Joined in 2008
March 11, 2008, 05:08

Ummm, ok?

All I was saying was I agreed with what was pointed out, you can argue and argue and argue your views and at some point you just have to stop and agree to disagree because people eventualy start getting defensive and then it turns ugly.

You read waaaaay to literaly into that quote. You obvioulsy have not read any of my other posts if you think I agree with the conservative christain views on homosexuality. Sandy and I have practiacly written a book over the last week debating her views over mine.

You are severly mistaken if you think I am predjudiced against anybody on this site, or that I would belittle the deaths of thousands of homosexuals during the holocaust. Ouch.

Dove Snuggler
Joined in 2007
March 11, 2008, 18:36

Hi John

I deeply regret any thought that I misunderstood you. I have read most of your posts and greatly appreciate your comments and the fun you add to the discussion. I mentioned your name for using the quote but I did not intend my comments to sound like they were addressed to you. (Botched up, didn’t I?)

My poorly constructed post was a comment on the overall discussion. My view is that just as people are hurt by prejudice, homophobia and misunderstanding, etc. etc., I feel that rigid anti-gay views are also disempowering and damaging to people. (I think some of this discussion has been that rigid but I may be wrong).

My world is not limited to the beliefs about homosexuality that I was taught as a Christian child. I experience faith, prayer, worship, the joy of the Holy Spirit and inspiration from the Bible. I seek to grow in understanding and retain an open mind. But I’m no more perfect than anyone else on this planet.

I vote there’s room for all.


Dove Snuggler
Joined in 2007
March 11, 2008, 18:40

Hi William

Thanks, now I know. You’re off the hook.

You said a while back: “the Bible has been a great source of blessing to me”.

Me too. There’s something we have in common.



Joined in 2008
March 12, 2008, 05:57

Hi Kit!

I understand now 😉

I totaly agree with your comment. You said:

My view is that just as people are hurt by prejudice, homophobia and misunderstanding, etc. etc., I feel that rigid anti-gay views are also disempowering and damaging to people.


Joined in 2007
March 17, 2008, 13:40

I agree the word ‘homophobia’ is seriously overused and misused.

I don’t agree that GLBT Christians (or GLBT people with Christian backgrounds) either should or shouldn’t think that homosexuality is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. For one thing, there are a lot of different things you might think of when you hear the word homosexuality or homosexual – from debauched orgies to attractions that are never acted upon.

For another, we all have a huge range of attitudes to (1) the status and importance of the Bible, and (2) the interpretation of certain passages of the Bible.

On the weekend I came across GayChristianNet for the first time. They’ve gone so far as reducing the debate to ‘Side A’ and ‘Side B’. One group of GLBT Christians believe that God blesses and approves of committed, monogamous homosexual relationships. The other group believes God calls people with same-sex attractions to be celibate.

I’m not saying we all have to stick a label on ourselves, but it seems that at GCN, both Sides are clear that there is space and room for the other.

And finally… I don’t believe these arguments are entirely useless. I, for one, have moved from one ‘Side’ to the other. But it’s taken over a decade, so I would advise against anyone expecting rapid results. 😉

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
March 18, 2008, 23:37

just for additional information. Bridges Across the Divide has been operating a site for quite some years now using the model of side A and Side B

you can find out more in depth here if you want.

Joined in 2007
March 22, 2008, 00:03

In line with the discussion about homophobia… knowing that the term is being overused in general society. What is it that within the Church. How do we overcome the barriers so that others can be spared from negative experience that would or could harm them.

You know its interesting that the bible tells us to name the sin… so that we can nail it and gain power over it.

What name should we give it to enable us to confront or support gay individuals who identify themselves as Christian.

Thanks in advance


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