You’re causing quite a stir in here aren’t you. 🙂 Nothing wrong with a good debate. . . . so long as both sides are willing to entertain the others views.
To give you credence, I’m impressed by your faith. But may I suggest that faith also does not equate to stubborness. I have no right to say that what you believe is wrong. I wouldn’t have a leg to stand on then (especially if I’ve shot myself in the foot as you have previously noted ;)) Judge not lest you be judged and all that. But it seems to me that you are an intelligent man. Based on that, let me propose a theory to you to think about.
Is it not possible that God, being onmniscient, all powerful and the master of design, could make each person an individual with an inbuilt way of connecting with him that is unique to them? We all know that God created us ‘in his image’, but have you ever counted the facets of God? Is it possible? If it is true that God created man to ‘have communion with him’ (to be in relationship with man) would it not make sense for him to create each one slightly different in the way in which he related to God in order to satisfy many different facets of his personality instead of just one? Can not each of these ways of relating to God be ‘in his image’? (Stay with me on this one – I can almost hear you smirking from Brisbane ;)) IF this is possible, is it not also possible that the ‘one true’ theory that you are proposing is limiting God? Just a thought. Don’t dismiss it straight away.
Also bruce, I understand that it must be almost satisfying to see people getting angry and defensive in the light of your questioning. If it were me, I’d assume that I was hitting a soft spot – an area that they obviously haven’t though through. That’s a fairly natural way to think. I’m not putting words in your mouth by the way, just what I’d be thinking. I suppose it becomes frustrating when you come head to head with people who are unable to understand your point of view. I suppose it’s a bit like Isaiah felt when, as quoted by Jesus, the people were “ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’
And of course we both see that scripture from opposing sides.
Could we be wrong? Of course! Could you be wrong? Only if you’re a human being. But this is all I know. Before I came to peace with my sexuality before God, my life was one of unrest, hatred, perversion and depression. When (i believe) God revealed the truth of these scriptures to me and I was free to have a relationship with him AND my partner, my life has been one of joy, peace, love, selflessness and hope. I love God. I don’t understand everything about him (otherwise I would be a God myself) and I don’t claim to. But I know that he loves me and he directs my steps every single day because I ask him to. And I’ve seen him work in me and through me over and over. If I’m deluded, then I think I’m quite happy to remain that way because, as Jesus said, “There is no fear in love.”
There are three possibilities here.
1/ WE are wrong and, even though we’ve seen the work of the spirit in our lives and tried with all our heart, mind and strength to live for God, on judgement day God will say, “Sorry – off to hell with you.”
2/ YOU are wrong and, even though you’ve seen the work of the spirit in your life and tried with all your heart, mind and strength to live for God, on judgement day God will say, “Sorry – off to hell with you.”
3/ God is God and is capable of making his own decisions apart from us and, just maybe, has the power to judge each person based on their heart for him and not the skill of reciting the bible verbatim. Maybe it’s his decision to make, not ours.
Why don’t we agree to disagree in the knowlege that God is big enough to deal with us individualy? Besides, God never said that we had to PROVE him to people, he instructed us to have faith and said that he “desires mercy not sacrifice.”
God bless you as you do what you believe God has instructed you to do. May people hear the truth of God in what you say and see past your human preconceptions. (I’m not trying to be condesending. I pray that for myself as well. 10 times over!)
Just to finish – a rebuttal to your comments on God changing. You said,
Sorry dash, but you just shot yourself in the foot. Yes God’s nature is unchanging, and it does APPEAR that God changes his mind. However, these changes are only to account for us, not himself. As you said, God’s nature is unchanging. Genesis describes a lot of God’s nature and things that he detests. God saying homosexuality is an abomination or detestable is saying something about the nature of God, that at that point in time he hates it. Saying it’s not is like saying God will hate something one day but love it the next. God doesn’t change like that. It’s not like God saying “do not eat meat” or any of the other “changes” he made to account for us.
I would like to know how it is that you have come to know the mind of God so completely. I would never dare to make such a fervent claim without evidence for the fear of an oncoming lightning bolt! Yes, I’m being facetious, but I think you should be careful about making sweeping claims about what God was thinking at any given moment unless you are yourself, God. In which case I sincerely apologise for being sarcastic. 😉
God bless ya buddy.