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How does it make YOU feel?

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holywoman
 
Joined in 2010
June 4, 2010, 19:33

As the debate of Human Sexuality heats up in the many branches of the church very few are left untouched, we are all happy to sit back and watch the debate unfold among the powers that be…


But how does it make YOU feel, when you are told as LBGT or someone connected to the community some of the following;


How do YOU react when people say the love you, but not the “Sin”?

How does it feel when you are denied the basic rights of marriage and the option of ordination that every other Christian is afforded?

How do you respond when people tell you that your ‘lifestyle’ (some would argue an offensive term in itself) is opposing scripture and that you need to change?


We are all happy to argue and debate as intellectuals within the church, argue interpretation and context, but very rarely do we turn to those on the fringe who are being excluded as a result of the debate. Being in the thick of it how YOU as an individual answer those who confront you?


So how do YOU respond when these challenges are put before you?



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
June 4, 2010, 21:15

Hi holywoman


Thanks for asking these questions. It’s lovely that you are interested and that is healing in itself.


In response to these matters: For myself and on behalf of others, I have felt unloved, judged, condemned, discarded, second class, like a ‘marked’ woman and angry. When Christians say they “love the sinner, hate the sin”, it’s patronising, religious speak for: “You’re actually quite unacceptable but I’m going to dress it up as something else to make myself look good.” They may not even be aware of these processes or that they condemn with their words but it translates to be being a very hateful and pharasaical approach. It amounts to a pat saying based on ignorance that leaves recipients feeling worthless.


My initial feelings mentioned above then have given way to a hopeless resignation, a knowing that there’s no point arguing with folk who believe homosexuality is a sin, because it can’t really be proven either way from scripture. In the past this has left me deeply heart broken to be so excluded from the church. And I reached a point where I had to declare the church relationship dead and stop hoping for life and love to revive this thing. The hope was killing me so I had to cut it loose.


And more recently, even though encouraging things have happened in some churches such as Rob Buckingham’s, the ill treatment inflicted by the greater church for such a long period of time has resulted in irreparable damage for me. It’s like it’s too late. And yet, I’m happy that it’s not for others in our community. I know that it’s possible for other LGBTs of faith to be included and able to participate in some churches and I am really glad for them.


I know that Jesus never treated anyone in a patronising or abusive way like the church has treated certain groups like black people, women and the LGBT community so I look to his example and take some comfort in that. And overriding the various scriptures that are frequently misinterpreted and often looked at from a misguided, lawful perspective, there is the Spirit of the word. Verses need to be read within that grace. It’s also worth knowing that changes occurred in the law, even in OT times, to accommodate those who needed greater protection in society. I love the various ‘understories’ throughout both the old and NT that show the exceptions made for the benefit of the most vulnerable and disadvantaged. i.e. A eunuch was granted special favour as was Esther and others. These are the sorts of things that give me hope and to which I hold dear.


Blessings,


Ann Maree



Andrea H
 
Joined in 2010
June 5, 2010, 17:22

Hi holywoman


Thanks for asking these questions. It’s lovely that you are interested and that is healing in itself.


In response to these matters: For myself and on behalf of others, I have felt unloved, judged, condemned, discarded, second class, like a ‘marked’ woman and angry. When Christians say they “love the sinner, hate the sin”, it’s patronising, religious speak for: “You’re actually quite unacceptable but I’m going to dress it up as something else to make myself look good.” They may not even be aware of these processes or that they condemn with their words but it translates to be being a very hateful and pharasaical approach. It amounts to a pat saying based on ignorance that leaves recipients feeling worthless.


My initial feelings mentioned above then have given way to a hopeless resignation, a knowing that there’s no point arguing with folk who believe homosexuality is a sin, because it can’t really be proven either way from scripture. In the past this has left me deeply heart broken to be so excluded from the church. And I reached a point where I had to declare the church relationship dead and stop hoping for life and love to revive this thing. The hope was killing me so I had to cut it loose.


And more recently, even though encouraging things have happened in some churches such as Rob Buckingham’s, the ill treatment inflicted by the greater church for such a long period of time has resulted in irreparable damage for me. It’s like it’s too late. And yet, I’m happy that it’s not for others in our community. I know that it’s possible for other LGBTs of faith to be included and able to participate in some churches and I am really glad for them.


I know that Jesus never treated anyone in a patronising or abusive way like the church has treated certain groups like black people, women and the LGBT community so I look to his example and take some comfort in that. And overriding the various scriptures that are frequently misinterpreted and often looked at from a misguided, lawful perspective, there is the Spirit of the word. Verses need to be read within that grace. It’s also worth knowing that changes occurred in the law, even in OT times, to accommodate those who needed greater protection in society. I love the various ‘understories’ throughout both the old and NT that show the exceptions made for the benefit of the most vulnerable and disadvantaged. i.e. A eunuch was granted special favour as was Esther and others. These are the sorts of things that give me hope and to which I hold dear.


Blessings,


Ann Maree


Dear Holywoman and Ann Maree,


Ann Maree is spot on here. “Love the sinner and hate the sin” is the most transparent and hypocritical attempt to reconcile hatred with Christian beliefs that has ever seen the light of day. I have heard this too many times to count and my reaction is always the same, disbelief that someone who calls themselves a Christian thinks this will explain away to others their views without making themselves look absolutely stupid. My response to this attitude 18 years ago was to tell those who made this a cornerstone of their ‘faith’ to have a good long hard look at what they actually represented, no Christianity I had ever seen described by Christ or represented by his life and resurrection. I then left the church for just shy of 18 years. I am now back with a different church, still with a little way to go, but at least they are willing to try to embrace people who are same-sex attracted without seeing them as someone that needs to be ‘fixed’ or pitied.


How does it make me feel? Sad for the damage done to people who have enough to cope with fitting into a society ‘built’ around heterosexist norms, angry at the loss of good Christians from the institution of the church who might have made a huge difference to the way the church supports the community as a whole, and finally pity for the people who think that their exclusive right-wing views have any relevance in modern discussions about theology, faith and the church. For those that haven’t read it find John Shelby Spong’s Manifesto and read it, you will find few better documents that articulate just how irrelevant the ‘anti-homosexual’ views of the hard right-wing really are.


Kindest thoughts and God bless,


Andrea



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
June 5, 2010, 17:50

Thanks Andrea. 🙂 Love your work too, by the way.


Blessings,


Ann Maree


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