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Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
December 28, 2010, 15:03

This below is from a lecture I gave this year at a leading Pentecostal/Charismatic Bible College.


The Creation Story


God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. We hear that trite, annoying saying too often. Of course the question arises. If God didn’t create Adam and Steve who did? Whenever someone makes that statement to me my usual response is ‘well it’s obvious you understand reproduction but seem to be ignorant about sexual orientation’.


If you believe in a literal 6 day creation and that God made man and woman only to reproduce then I guess there is not much I can do for you. As a Christian, whether you are literalist, creationist, Intelligent Design advocate, believe in Darwin’s theory of evolution, or a mixture of several positions, you are not alone as all beliefs can be found in Christendom. It would be good to point out at this time that many scholars believe that there are actually two different accounts of creation in Genesis written by different authors.



Is the fundamental message of the Genesis record of creation how or who?


Who was in the beginning? On this point I think we would all agree. GOD….existing in a realm you and I will never be able to comprehend as it exists outside the known realm of time and space and our tiny little minds. I don’t think the Bible was ever meant to be a science text book and we have gotten ourselves into trouble believing it to be so. The scientific theories of Galileo and Copernicus are just one of the many examples of scientific discovery challenging the popular Christian worldview of the time. What was once hotly debated amongst the greatest minds of the time and rejected by the church is now taught as fact to children in the first years of primary school. We need to be more cautious about adding the words ‘the bible says’ to our statements lest we reveal the stupidity of our so called ‘blind faith’.


So the question is ‘was God’s intention in making male and female for reproduction only?


Some people believe that the Genesis story is telling us that God made male and female for reproduction. After all God commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. People have used this to discredit gay and lesbian relationships as they cannot produce children ‘naturally’. If the logic behind this is followed through then a married couple to have sex purely for mutual pleasure only would be against God’s command and also for the following situations.

• it is wrong for sterile couples to have sex……no children will be reproduced.

• it is wrong for a woman to have sex after she has reached menopause…..no children will be reproduced.

• it is wrong for heterosexual couples to have oral sex …..no children will be reproduced.

• It is wrong for a man with mutilated genitals to have sex with his wife……..no children will be reproduced.


Even if you believe the Genesis record of creation you’ll see that God did not create a black and white world of male and female. Creation is not black and white, it is an awe inspiring, amazingly diverse, intricate creation: including sexualities and a variety of non-heterosexual expressions of behaviour, affection and partnering occurring in most species, including humans. We have animals that change gender, animals that are neuter and can become either sex, some reproduce without another partner. For example all barramundi begin their lives as male, changing sex to female at a weight of around 5kg. If you are eating a male barramundi it is probably an illegal fish. It’s interesting to study gender and sex in chickens.


Today we know that same sex behaviours are a common and widespread phenomenon in the animal world and have been observed in more than 1500 species. Not only short-lived sexual relationships, but even long-lasting partnerships; partnerships that may last a lifetime. Some include infant raising as well.


God has made an amazing creation and the ability to reproduce is only a small part of it. Before God created male and female he made an even more insightful statement; ‘it is not good for mankind to be alone’. This is fundamental to all human beings whether they be heterosexual or homosexual. As the Hon. Michael Kirby wrote in the forward to my autobiography ‘’A Life of Unlearning’, “Human stories, like the one in these pages, play a part in advancing understanding and acceptance. It is the story of a quest to find not only self-acceptance but one of the most powerful forces in nature—human love.” Both straight and gay lasting relationships are based on love, trust and commitment, not sex or reproduction. Was this God’s intention?


So as the saying goes……. ‘Heterosexuality is not normal, it’s just more common. Normal is a cycle you choose on your washing machine’. What is natural for me as same sex orientated human being is unnatural for those of you who ‘chose’ to be heterosexual. (Sorry couldn’t resist that one)



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
December 28, 2010, 15:13

I have had many people bring up the ‘pieces don’t fit’ argument over the years.


It is probably not a discussion that I’d feel comfortable having here on the forum……..but when one does an in-depth study of erogenous zones and pleasure points on the male and female bodies and the way foetuses transform in the womb when gender is created physically one begins to realise that the there is a great deal more erotic pleasure available beyond the interaction of a penis and vagina. Straight couples who have a healthy. stimulating and adventurous sex life know about this.


To know more about this you would have to read books like The Joy of Gay Men’s Sex or the Joy of Lesbian Sex…….something they don’t teach in biology classes……because of the heterosexist mindset.



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
December 30, 2010, 00:55

I enjoyed reading your notes from your talk, AVB how was it received? Was your audience mostly the ‘converted’ or were you talking to an audience of people who might have found this challenging? Just curious. I liked the points you raised and am really hoping you were not just ‘preaching it to the choir.’ 🙂 8)



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
December 30, 2010, 01:03

very much sharing with people along way back on the journey actually……but they were very respectful and attentive.



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
December 30, 2010, 13:10

Ah ok. Well, seeds planted eventually bear fruit. Here’s hoping for a bumper crop.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
December 30, 2010, 13:56

I think the climate is perfect for planting seeds……hehe



Guest

January 1, 2011, 19:18

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies 🙂



Guest

January 2, 2011, 14:26

Hi guys, thanks for all the reading and research you have given me hehe. All good. Just letting you know I will not be replying to posts as I am away for a while, and in the near future going to visit a friend for a few weeks. Happy New Year 🙂



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
January 2, 2011, 17:07

Hi Maryanne


Have a lovely time away and Happy New Year to you too. 🙂


I look forward to hearing from you when you return.


Blessings,


Ann Maree


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