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What would you say to him/her? Are they wasting their time?

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Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 11, 2009, 00:06

. I’ll never forget listening to whatshisname from LW (the American guy who founded it?) and he was saying how he struggled and blah blah blah and eventually got married and every single person in the auidence went “awwwww”. I mean come on, seriously? People are insane. 🙄 😆 He made a point of saying heterosexuality wasn’t the goal though. It was just oh so convienient that he got married and everything.


Andy Comiskey…..you now how I seem to have the most incredible connections….well I have some inside knowledge there with someone I’ve been working with. Strange how he has disappeared off the scene.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 11, 2009, 00:12

i was really hoping that Simon and I could have a dialouge. that was one of the reasons I went along to the seminar as well as to meet Deb. We can hear all sorts of things that are said about other people but I like to make my own assessments. I gave him my card and said I’d like to catch up for coffee….but alas nothing.


I’m all for creating a respectful dialogue.


re the original question……what would you say or advice……..I think I’d begin by asking questions….not telling him or her what they should do. Find out why they would want to go….what were they looking for.


I know at Freedom 2 b[e]…..we often get people coming along who are attending Living Waters or Liberty Christian Ministries at the same time…..like they want to hear both sides.



Meyerink
 
Joined in 2009
August 11, 2009, 00:26

putting myself out there totally. i would say that there are people out there that are just confused with their sexuality. more catorgorised by being called trysexuals rather then labelling them with the gay/bi tags.


even though time will tell where their sexuality really lies, I think some guidance would assist. I dont agree with the working of ex-gay programs that try to shift the orientation of people. but if they dont have an orientation to shift then let em have a go.


In saying that, Ex-gay programs take a harsh line to convert people back to hetrosexuality. Imagine if the church had the same stance to get people saved. people would be running from the church! Like all things, the only thing that works are programs based on relationships, mentoring, and working as a team. just sitting people down in a room and making people do questionares each day and studies until they are blue in the face doesnt achieve anything.


If you want someone to stop thinking thoughts about the opposite sex why whould you ask them daily what thoughts they are thinking? isnt it putting it in the spotlight and making that the focus?


wow – i’ve jumped to each side of the fence in just a couple of paragraphs. sorry about that! hope this helps the discussion anyway.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 11, 2009, 00:44

i think the major problem we have with ex-gay ministries…..well maybe my problem is the premise they are based on.


that is that our same sex orientation is abnormal and unhealthy. Mine is normal and decidedly healthy. They don’t acknowledge that people like me exist. Apparently we are deceived.


Of course if you are working with people who are same sex oriented and they have and addiction or been sexually abused then I can understand why they think its unhealthy and abnormal. Abuse and addiction are….but its not the orientation that is the problem.


a recent development is the term “unwanted same sex attraction”.


I’m not so sure though that this means that those who don’t see it as ‘unwanted”…are accepted as equal or right.


…..it is never really explored why it is “unwanted”. It would be “unwanted” I assume it is because of fear of rejection, being abnormal, going to hell…or just plain ignorance.



oooooo
 
Joined in 2006
August 11, 2009, 08:21

the problem with a friend going to such a program is that many of the people/leaders of such programs strongly encourage participants to cut themselves off from their gay friends (was my experience anyway) so if the ‘friend’ takes their advise it would be difficult to see how they are going but i would think a presence and prayer would be essential while they go through the program or whatever


it would be difficult to outrightly say no dont do it

i do not go that way myself anyway – to say no dont go



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 11, 2009, 12:51

Happy Birthday oooooo


Yep….I think I’d let them know that I would not reject them if they went that way…..whilst I think it is a waste of time and energy….i would try and be non-judgemental. I would try and support them through the journey. I think I would also pay close attention to the impact of engagement on their mental health. Duty of care is often lacking in these programs when people leave.


I remember that during my 28 year journey to complete reconciliation I went in and out of the closet several times…three all up. so how could I judge someone who is doing what I did. Of course there was not the information available to me that is to them….but still I have to allow them their journey to reconciliation.


Basically I’d try and give them everything that I wasn’t given by my Christian brothers and sisters…..that is…..unconditional love, support, a listening ear as opposed to condemnation, non-judgment.



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
August 11, 2009, 14:14

Andy Comiskey…..you now how I seem to have the most incredible connections….well I have some inside knowledge there with someone I’ve been working with. Strange how he has disappeared off the scene.


Ah, it’s good to have friends in high places. There have been quite a number of those situations occuring. It’s almost a shame, his wife is such a lovely woman. I remember reading about John Paulk when he divorvced his wife…that was quite some time ago though. Suppose its telling that my heart breaks more for the desolate wives in these situations 😉


One of the biggest changes in both the theory and theology of ex-gay ministies is the notion of a 100% change. I have yet to find one that claims all people who change will be 100% cured. What most of them claim is a lessening of homosexual desire and an emergence of heterosexual desire. This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense if one believes that God made everyone heterosexual to begin with. If that were true then why wouldn’t people change 100%, does God just get lazy half way through the healing process? 😆 😆 It’s one of the major flaws in my opinion. That and the fact that no two ex-gay programs are the same. I mean, if they work, why are they all different?!



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
August 11, 2009, 15:29

friends all over the world now in key places…..something that just happened….maybe it was God.


Anyway….not so sure the Comiskeys have broken up (not that i’ve heard) ….but there disappearance from certain circles makes for interesting research.


I didn’t hear that John Paulk and his wife were divorced. Last I heard they were still together and John was working a chef. Sy told me that.


Good point about the different programs….I knew that but didn’t make the connection you did.


You are clever aren’t you Sandy 😆 😆 😆



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
August 11, 2009, 16:05

Now you’ve said that I’m thinking maybe John and Anne might not have actually split. I do know that John “practised” 😉 his homosexuality there for a bit though which caused some dramas. Maybe I just assumed they split. I guess if anyone could be forgiving of that kind of thing it is Anne, she has a similar background. Interesting couple on all accounts.



Meyerink
 
Joined in 2009
August 11, 2009, 16:54

That and the fact that no two ex-gay programs are the same. I mean, if they work, why are they all different?


Oh this is simple to answer. because people are all different. what helps one person wont nessessarily help another.


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