An email from US preacher Johnny Lee Clary (former KKK)

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Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
July 7, 2009, 09:00

this note of mine has been getting a huge response on facebook so thought I should post it here as well.

I thought I’d share this email I just received and my response to the Rev. Johnny Lee directly below. Scroll down to Dear Johnny to read my response.

I read where you were the original founder of YOUTH ALIVE. Tell me, what do you think the youth that you led to the Lord think about your homosexual lifestyle? Do you not read your bible? There are plenty of New Testament scriptures that address this issue. I have read some of your comments and you are grasping for straws to try to justify your sinful lifestyle. Yes Jesus does love you, but He does not love the lifestyle of perversion and sin that you have chosen. It is sad enough that you left the calling of God to live that lifestyle, but even sadder that you promote it and tell everyone that it is OK with God. Whose ‘god’ sir? Certainly not the God of the Bible. In God’s eyes homosexuality is just as bad as fornication, lying, thievery, adultery, murder or any other sin that heterosexuals commit.

The good news is there is still time for you to repent. There is room at the cross for you. All you have to do is tell God you are sorry for what you have done, repent and He will make you normal, forgive you, and you will get to go to Heaven instead of where you are heading to now if you fail to repent. God never sends any human being to Hell, but they chose to send themselves there when they reject the truth. Imagine how many you could help if you would tell God you are sorry and make a public statement that you have been wrong. Jesus is waiting. I realize there are certain ‘pastors’ that are your friends and they tell you that you were born a homosexual and that Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality so therefore God is OK with it. That is a lie right out of the pits of Hell. Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited. This is found in Matthew 19:1-8.

Then in Romans 1: 18, 26, 27, 32 it says “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men . . .For even their women exchanged the natural use

for what is against nature (lesbianism).Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burning in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful (homosexuality) . .. .

that those who practice these things are worthy of death (Hell), and not only those who do the same but also those who approve of those who practice them!”

(Note: Other offenses were also included which were not listed here.)

Here, God clearly warns all those who simply “tolerate” or “approve of ” these things with their great “open-mindedness” will be held just as accountable as those who actually do them. This applies to churches and pastors/ministers/priests/rabbis as well.

Jude forcefully revealed that like the Sodomites, certain men in the church had gone after “strange flesh.” I believed Jude was describing contemporary “gay christians”. His choice of phraseology is a combination of two words: heteros and sarx meaning “another flesh with the same quality.” His inclusion of the word flesh pointed to the homosexuality (not the inhospitality) of the Sodomites. Similar to the Apostle Paul, Jude selected strong language to convey the serious of the charge facing the church. Allowing unrepentant homosexuals into Christian fellowship without applying the same standards of admission applied to other sinners would be a spiritual death nell for the church. Repentance is the major action a sinner must take to be accepted into the family of God. Jude 1:4,7,19

Yes the church should allow a homosexual to attend but not allow their lifestyle to be promoted. I would allow a drunk or a grug addict to attend my church but trhey would not be allowed to promote their sinful lifestyle because God says it is wrong, just like He said homosexuality is wrong. Jesus said in Matthew 9:12 that it is not the healthy who need a doctor but it is the sick who need a doctor. Jesus is the cure for homosexuality and if you will just call upon His name and He can make you normal.

From Genesis to Revelation, the Word of God firmly establishes once and for all the sinfulness of homosexuality, but also provides a wide opportunity for repentance and redemption through Jesus Christ. Homosexuality, as seen through the eyes of scripture is a spiritual aberration, a result of the fallen nature of man, a disease of the soul. It produces nothing life giving, in essence opposite of the nature of God who is life. Therefore it “worketh” or produces abomination which is death. (Rev. 21:27)

Titus 1:16 is an aggressive attack and exposure of the psychosis of those who are “defiled” and commit “abominations”. When one accepts what God has pronounced abominable (by God’s own definition) and rejects the created model which God has pronounced good, a process of hardening and mental perversion begins to take root in the mind. Such is the danger of justifying sin. Sin corrupts the mind and conscience (the seat of individual integrity and morality) rendering it incapable of making spiritually sound decisions.

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

See, this is saying that practicing homosexuals do not go to Heaven, but repentant homosexuals do because then they are former homosexuals.

So, who loves the homosexual more? One who tells them it’s okay to continue in a sin the Bible warns will condemn them to an eternity in Hell, or someone who is willing to endure the anger, ridicule, and hate to warn them and to try to get them into Heaven as a neighbor? Your ‘pastor’ buddies that tell you that your lifestyle is OK and that I am the “right wing American hater” are not being truthful to you. If I didn’t care I would not have taken the time to write and send you this email. In Proverbs 27:6 God says, ‘Faithful are the wounds of a friend … but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.’ Jesus said more about Hell than He did about Heaven … and the true believing Christian will try to get as many boys, girls, men, and women into the Kingdom of Heaven as possible. If a Christian truly hated the homosexual (or anyone willfully sinning against God’s law) they would simply keep silent and let them suffer in the eternal darkness, loneliness, and torment of Hell. Yet, all believing Christians have had to come face-to-face with the fact we are all sinners and desperately need a ‘Savior’ to save us from our sins and from Hell. Jesus commands us to ‘love our enemies’ … and you can’t love someone without warning them when they are in great and grave danger …

Please remember, our God is a forgiving God who will forgive any and all who have sinned against Him. Any sinner, including those who have walked the path of homosexuality or have had an abortion, can be lovingly forgiven and washed clean through the blood of the Lamb. Jesus died for all sinners. And we are all sinners. God hates sin and He knows the consequences . . .. that is why He pleads with all of His lost sheep to stop and repent from doing those things that are wrong, and with tears of joy He will richly forgive and welcome all back with the open arms of a loving Father.

I ask that you put all pre-conceived thoughts aside, think about what has been written to you in this email, and repent of your sin, ask Jesus to forgive you and cure you, and make you normal. If you do that, you will affect many lives of young people and they will see this as an example of the true power of God and will end up in Heaven. If you repent, you will no longer be a homosexual and I will see you in heaven.

“Ah yes, truth. Funny how everyone is always asking for it but when they get it they don’t believe it because it’s not the truth they want to hear.” ~Helena Cassadine

Rev. Johnny Lee Clary


Dear Johnny

Firstly I should correct your statement. I founded Youth Alive NSW not Youth Alive in Australia. Mal Fletcher was the first to begin Youth Alive in Melbourne. It wasn’t long after that I commence Youth Alive in NSW.

I’ve received 1,000’s of emails since my autobiography was released only a very small number have been negative. Occasionally I get an unsolicited email such as yours with no indication as to what has prompted the person to feel that they need to make me aware of bible verses I am very familiar with, being a high profile preacher such as yourself.

What I find incredibly fascinating is that someone who I don’t know, doesn’t know me or has read my book feels it is their right to make judgments about me and the life I live because I’m an openly gay man. The assumption and judgement being that being gay means you are immoral and deceived. The last person to do this was a Dr Larry Petree ( also from the US who began his email to me with the words “I can see the demons in your eyes” and then continued with a barrage of false assumptions mixed with numerous bible verses. His email was not really disturbing to me but indicated that Dr Petree was probably quite disturbed mentally to make such accusations. When I responded graciously to his email he then accused me of attacking him and threatened to get the FBI on to me. This is quite bizarre behaviour for a man who claims to be a follower of Christ and preacher of the gospel.

Some of your statements have a similar vein for example “Jesus does love you, but He does not love the lifestyle of perversion and sin that you have chosen. All you have to do is tell God you are sorry for what you have done, repent and He will make you normal, forgive you, and you will get to go to Heaven instead of where you are heading to now if you fail to repent”

A statement I’ve made frequently has helped people to see things much more clearly including the Assemblies of God in Australia. The statement being “my morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn’t.”

I note that you spent 17 years in the Klu Klux Klan reaching to high heights in the organization and that you have been involved in arson, destruction of property, threatened the lives of African Americans and possibly even murder. You were terribly ignorant and misguided to have done such things which you now realize. Thank God you got converted. In Australia it’s difficult to understand the ignorance, bigotry and hatred that has come from groups like the KKK.

You tell a wonderful story on Australian television of the impact the Rev. Wade Watts (a Christian African-American) had on your life. The preconceived ideas and misconceptions of him, before meeting him are difficult to understand but you were won over by his love even though you used thuggery to intimidate, trashed his property, threatened his life and burnt his church down. Thank God the Rev Wade Watts demonstrated true Christianity. Now its your turn.

We have made many errors in the Christian church including racism, treating others of a different colour as inferior, rejecting people who were divorced, saying women were not allowed to preach etc etc. The list is endless. We have been wrong…very wrong. …and may God forgive us for the pain and suffering the church has caused.

There is now a wonderful wave of understanding also about homosexuality and how we have used scriptures to justify our own ignorance and prejudices to treat same sex oriented people different or abnormal. Heterosexuality is not normal it’s just more common. We are all normal and under the eyes of God are loved the same. Many have come to understand the verses which were assumed to be about homosexuality are indeed about idolatry, temple prostitution, rape etc. Certainly not same sex orientation as we know it today.

I refer to an important statement made by you on your website when asked this question by Rosemary Connors , St. Louis, Mo. “I live in St. Louis, Mo. and was visiting family in Tulsa when I visited the Church where you attend a few weeks ago. As an African American person, I was very glad to see how you seemed to treat African American people. I observed you shaking hands as well as hugging others, in this predominantly African American church. I could tell that you seemed to be genuine and sincere while interacting with African American people. Was it hard to get to this point, after what you once advocated, and what does it feel like to have friends that are African American?”

Your response was “I will be completely honest in saying that when I first began to attend church with Black people it was hard to get used to the idea The Black folks were so nice to me that after awhile I felt very comfortable. It took awhile to renew my mind as Romans 12:2 says, because I had spent a lifetime of being prejudice. With good Black friends like Rev. Wade Watts and Bishop George McKinney, I was able to see that good friends come in all colors. Today, when I see my Christian brothers and sisters, I don’t look at them as my “Black”, “Brown”,” Red”, “Yellow” or “White” friends, I look at them as my friends!”

Maybe one day soon you will realise that as you were wrong for so many years about people of colour, that you will also come to understand how wrong you have been about gay and lesbian people. When that happens I do hope that once again you go on national television and share you new understanding and apologise for the pain you have caused by your lack of understanding. And as Rev. Wade Watts forgave you so we will also forgive.

When you are in Australia next why don’t we meet up and have coffee and chat? Maybe I could have the privileged position of being a Rev. Wade Watts once again in your life. I am a person who still believes in miracles. I think I’ve had four major ones

1. I’m still alive

2. I have not bitterness or resentment

3. I have no major mental health issues

4. I still have a faith.

I see also that you have ministered in the churches of many of my friends. I will make them aware of the entirety of your communication with me and also my response and leave them to decide if a person with the attitude and views you stand by is an appropriate person to endorse or speak in their pulpits. And I’ll respect their decision. We are all on a journey together.


Joined in 2006
July 7, 2009, 09:36

Brilliant responce, its always about building bridges and being honest and understanding in our replies… you have stated and is sooooo true, the enemy is not people, its ignorance and the embracing of it by some.

Joined in 2006
July 7, 2009, 10:56

It’s the continued repetition of the word “normal” that strikes me

What is “normal” ?…..a cycle on a washing machine ! I avoid using the word as much as I can

I loved your response as I commented on FB……….. articulate, polite and encouraging

Joined in 2007
July 8, 2009, 03:07

Christians can be so harsh. Good on you for being gentle in response AVB!

I have a question though. I read the Matthew 19 passage he quoted to see what it said. It made me think… how come Jesus never gives same sex relationships as an option? How come he only refers to a man and a woman in relationship or single people? They are the only options. That make me scared. I read a book about the ‘clobber’ passages and it makes sense to me- I don’t think they clearly condemn same sex committed relationships- these aren’t addressed. BUT my question is, why aren’t they mentioned as an option at all? Like, in James and other NT books they write specifically to married men and women, single people, widowed … never to same sex people. I really want to understand these things. Please let me know your thoughts because I am so consumed by all this stuff … ahhhhh.

Thank you!

Joined in 2006
July 8, 2009, 09:38

Good question sparrow 8) I still do believe God doesnt condemn my sexuality but why he didnt mention it, I dunno, maybe he didnt need to, if he did how manyyyyyyyyy variences would he have to address, you just couldnt write about it, maybe he did say something but it just wasnt put in the gospels, like John said if he recorded everything Jesus ever did, the world couldnt contain the books, it just may not have been a big issue that needed addressing. Sounds flippant maybe 😉 so awaiting Anthonys reply but I just see it that way.

Joined in 2008
July 8, 2009, 17:18

Hi all

Just to add my thoughts to the mix Re Matthew 19: isn’t the point that underpins all of the discussion on this issue the fact that the notion of homosexuality as an identity is fairly new? Until recent decades – and still today in quite a few non western societies that I can think of – homosexuality as a practice existed pretty much alongside the expected “norm” of marriage. So – in an age where homosexual identity did not really exist, there really would not have been any point in Jesus speaking about it to his disciples.

Secondly, in Matt 19, Jesus was responding to a specific question on marriage and divorce. Looking at Matt 19 as a list of “choices” (which it doesn’t to me appear to be), one should either marry and never divorce; otherwise they are clearly “Eunuchs” and not able to (I quote) “bear this word”. I don’t appear to fit into either!

Thirdly – in truth, I just don’t know. But equally, those who fail to look into the word to see how it can include and not discount (especially on the basis of their own homophobia, hatred or disapproval) cannot claim to know either. So as with every other scripture, we can but rely on the Holy Spirit for his leading on this – which he is more than capable of doing.


Joined in 2006
July 8, 2009, 17:51

Good point and well said NJ 😀

Joined in 2009
July 8, 2009, 19:45

Secondly, in Matt 19, Jesus was responding to a specific question on marriage and divorce. Looking at Matt 19 as a list of “choices” (which it doesn’t to me appear to be), one should either marry and never divorce; otherwise they are clearly “Eunuchs” and not able to (I quote) “bear this word”. I don’t appear to fit into either!

I remember a few months ago, reading through all the gospels over a few weekends and really thinking about what was in them and writing down verses which I wanted to research more in to.

Matthew 19, particularly verses 11 and 12, stood right out to me. In all my research in to Christianity and Homosexuality, the clobber passages and the like, these verses had never appeared once on my radar. My thoughts were reinforced when listening to Ben on the radio with Rowland Croucher, who mentioned these exact same verses in the exact same way I interpreted them.

Jesus was answering a specific question here and even saying straight afterwards, that it can’t possibly apply to everyone because not everyone is the same.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
July 9, 2009, 00:53

yep people say Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality….i disagree…to me matt 19 is pretty clear. If you study what eunuchs actually were and what their role was its pretty clear.

To the people living during the time of the writing of the Bible it was simply assumed that all people would marry and have children. If one did not do so, it would be assumed that there was something wrong with him, i.e. he may be classified as a eunuch. Thus, it is possible that many people who were gay would have been seen as eunuchs. We do not know this for fact, but we do know that many men were made to be eunuchs by men in order to guard their harems and Paul spoke about those who chose celibacy in an effort to more fully serve God. These two cover the last two categories spoken of by Christ, so we are still left with the first category.

During Old Testament times (see Leviticus), eunuchs were not allowed entry into the house of the Lord and were generally despised. Which is not too dissimilar from homosexuals today. Does the prohibition of eunuchs in Leviticus indicate the God never intended to bring eunuchs into his fold? No of course not, let’s read from Isaiah 56 3-5 “let not the eunuch say ‘Behold, I am dry tree’ for thus says the Lord, ‘To the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who chose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant, I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters, I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off.'”.

Today there are many believing GLBT people who have been forbidden or at least discouraged from partaking in church services, but who still hold His Word sacred.

Also, Paul speaks of one eunuch in Acts 8: 26-39. The eunuch was a high ranking official of the queen of Ethiopia and he had come to Jerusalem to worship. He was on the road from Jerusalem to Gaza, returning home and reading the book of Isaiah. Philip had been commanded by an angel of the Lord to be on that road that day. Philip caught up with the man and preached the Word of God (despite the prohibition of allowing a eunuch to worship). As they neared the water Philip baptizes the eunuch (again quite a taboo) and is then whisked away by the Spirit of the Lord. Tradition has it that this eunuch introduced Christianity to Ethiopia.

We don’t know if this eunuch was or was not homosexual. However, we do know that some of the eunuchs mentioned in scripture were undoubtedly those whose sexuality precluded a heterosexual relationship (“those born incapable of marriage”) and Philip a messenger of God would have known this. He was not at all hesitant about sharing God’s Word despite the church’s rules against such behavior and he did not attempt to convert him from being a eunuch (i.e. ex-eunuch ministry like the ex-gay ministry). He simply shared the Word of God and His saving grace. It is there for all people, heterosexual, eunuch, or gay.

Joined in 2007
July 9, 2009, 01:51

Thank you for your responses! i appreciate how well thought through you all are.

One more question for now. Is homosexuality a new thing? I would have thought it existed since the beginning of time. Do you been an accepted thing? Or not standard Jewish practice? Sorry Nicky Jay … just trying to get my head around it. I really did appreciate your answer!!! 😀

I hate that it’s all so confusing. I hate the turmoil that we all go through. I just want to be with the person I love so deeply and honour God at the same time. I don’t want it to be mutually exclusive- it would kill me! It consumes every waking thought that I have.

Thank you for your support – I think I would have gone completely insane without this group.

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