Hi to the group

I wonder if there other people in the forum who have decided to reject their concept of God … a concept they have held for a substantial period of time … and no longer want to re-engage the Christian church system?

I would like to hear from you and how you have dealt with moving on from the church.

Do you still hold a belief in God? What beliefs have you retained and why?

Which one’s did you reject and why?

Cheers 🙂

This is interesting. I am wondering if there will be any response. f2b is a place where we are all struggling with concept of God in the way that we are told or dictated to believe. I had an advantage in that I am Deaf myself so I never picked up on the little things but focused on God all the way through my christian life… I began to understand early in my christian life that a church are full of imperfect people who are hurting from various things. Things that people in the real world don’t sweat about – smiling.

I know that God has held me through life.. revealed my life growing and how intervention was made at various stages of my life that I could have never done… I learnt that God accepts me for what I am… and the pride God must feel in honouring our lives. It saddens God when we get trapped into the “framework” of Christianity which is not what God has intended but God is there with us, through all these difficulties. Even those who deny God only do it because of their experience… in time God will make those revealations to free them from the entrapment. And humans are free to choose what they want… out of life.

Smile.

Just thought I throw in a few pennies of my thoughts on this.

Taking it one step further I’d like to know how people justify their beliefs or lack there of in their own minds. What role does experience. historical and scientific evidence and commentaries from books etc play? I guess what I’m asking is not what you believe but why you believe it and why your previous belief system was rejected in favour of the new one.

*shrugs* nobody in particular though from memory I was wondering after reading your book what conclusions you had come to, how you came to them and why but they may be in the new edition that I havn’t finished reading…yet… lol one day I will have time to sit down with some recreational reading… It will probably be a great way to celebrate my 60th birthday.

Here are some quotes from some emails you sent me ages ago that may give you a bit of a starting point.

“I don’t have all the answers either…..but one thing I do know is that God loves me as I am.” (LOL me in my ignorance of your personality and character was like “what on earth are you writing a book for then if you have no answers!!!” ah me and my linear, black and white brain. I now know that you don’t think in terms of questions and answers and I have to be content with that, even if it drives me crazy 😉 )

“I am a gay man who loves God and lives a good life……..end of story…..” (Hmm, loving God is automatically followed by obedience to God and do any of us live a good life in the sense that God wants us too? We are all sinful no matter what, you are no less sinful today then you were 20 years ago, none of us are…is that really the end of the story? Seems a little flippant…)

“they never refer to heterosexuals as having ‘a chosen lifestyle’. As if gay men and lesbians have cornered the market on sex……and no one else does it.” (LOL funny and well put, I have quoted you on that one more than once)

“I think its quite easy……you live a life that honours God and one of the ways you do that is by loving who you are.” (I echo my comments I made in my reply email…EASY?!! I know we have discussed the whole loving who you are thing to death already and from memory I think I conceeded the pont but I think there is a difference between loving you you ARE intrinsically has a child of God, his great masterpeice or so to speak and loving the things you DO. Obviously homosexualiy is not a choice but it is a choice no engage in sexual activity. I know you believe we should all love this about ourselves too, so to get to the crux of the issue, why believe it and how did you come to that belief. It would be great if you could be as clear as possible so that your reply doesnt promote the sixty thousand questions the last one did, that would be very helpful 😉 )

“For what its worth……the way it worked for me was that first of all my relationship with God was reconciled……then my sexuality…….then the bible verses.” (I’ll be honest that sentence has kept me awake at night! If the bible is the word of God given to us through the spirit to guide us on earth then it really shouldn’t be the last thing in that list. To me we reconcile with God through the bible not inspite of it. I seems easy and in a way inevitable to interpret the scripture in the light of preconcieved ideas when you place scripture after your sexuality, at the very least it was rather convienient and coincidental that you found new meaning in the passages to fit the choices you had previously made. Maybe I’m being harsh but that sentence is one of the core reasons I have not been persuaded by your theology, however tempting it is.)

I would be interested to hear your answers to the how and why questions of your theology and Andrews as well. Gay Christian appoligetics that go beyond, I was born this way, its natural for me and God loves me are difficult to come across. I don’t think they are cop-outs for most but they are a bit basic, your comments above are a bit vauge. Though that probably has more to do with us knowing nothing about one another, who knew that we’d be here discssing the same stuff months later. I winced more reading MY responces to you than I did reading your replies. For what it’s worth I am now certain that gay christains who have a genuine faith and desire to please God will be saved…what was I thinking?!!! 🙄 Goes to show you how helpful this site has been, I was so totally ignorant and legalistic!

I know my previous concept of God was very limited. In fact that God was against me……well a part of me. My spirituality is redefined to a God who does not judge me and has given me the power to make my own decisions and choices so I am responsible to make the choices that are right for me and others……….and loves me…..and everyone.

I agree that if you believed that God was against you then yes your concept was limitted because this is far from true. The rest I take exception to and as usual your ‘answer’ raises more questions that it actually answers. Do you believe in the second comming of Christ and the idea that on that day he will judge the living and the dead? What does he judge them on, blind faith or action as well? Does that make sense really, faith without works is not faith really James tells us so what happens? And if God loves everyone, by which im assuming you mean hindu’s and buddhist and muslims as well, does hell exist? Does judgement exist? Does Jesus’ death forgive the sins of those who reject him? If so why bother to believe? Is the idea that God is judgement-free in contrast to your previous comments that you live a good life? Why even mention morality if no one is judged? What about the ligitimacy of the bible in these areas, Jesus himself says that we can only come to the father if we know him, do Buddhist’s know him?

I agree God has given us power to make our own decisions but is your concept of this in contrast to the biblical idea of predestination, that God predestiened us to become his followers? That to some extent he controls our lives and there outcomes? The idea that god doesn’t judge and loves everyone is sweet and politically correct but is it biblical? Does it have to be in your opinion? Is the bible really the inspired word of god or is it a set of letters and recounts by sinful humans free of God’s divine imput? I could go on forever… 😉 But that should keep you busy for now. I’d love to get a hold of you for at least a week and pin you down on these issues lol. I tried to convince Anna to ask you when she met you and recieved an empatic “are you kidding? No way, don’t get me to do your dirty work for you!” lol. She’s getting married very soon by the way, so exciting!! 😀

Please anyone who wants to contribute please. please do. Anthony and I could debate this forever in circles as we have been on and off for some time now so it would be wonderful, fablous and exciting to get a new perspective. Have I sold you all on the idea? Would chocolate help? A foot massage? Let me know 😉

It would be interesting to hear more about your beliefs Jannah when you come to some definate conclusions. I promise not to bombard you with endless questions. Your idea of a non-interactive God is similar in part to certain Buddhist philosophies whereby all things come out of and eventually return to Brahman but Brahman is a trancendant, unknowable, super-force or so to speak with no clear personality or guidelines of morality etc. I’m sure your beliefs do not reflect Buddhist philosphy in full but there may be some similarity there.