Hi Jarryd,

Thanks for taking the time to express some of your thoughts about people (LGBT or otherwise) being burned by the church and/or religion in general.

Throughout the ages there have always been differences of opinion on various issues between individuals and institutions such as the church. Homosexuality being just one of those. History is full of examples where people have been treated less than favourably because they were different and/or did not conform to the expected norm of the institution. From my own experience I was part of a church that has a doctrine that is considered radical and outside of mainstream thinking which forbids certain activities such as homosexuality.

The great thing about freedom2b[e] is we have no agenda. We are part of the diversity of the human existance that will ocassionally encounter differences in beliefs, opinions and values. And we respect the right of other people to have those. As you will see from other posts on this forum we always encourage and engage in conversation and dialogue that upholds our no agenda statement.

Yes people do unfortunately get burned by the church however most of the reasons can be traced back to ignorance, misinformation, misconceptions, preconceptions and myths. As we journey on in life we will eventually come across people and situations that have differing beliefs and values to our own. I agree that more compassion, love, acceptance and understanding for each other, particularly about sexual orientation, is much needed today.

its good we have the safe space here to discuss things like this Jarryd.

yep…..people get burned…..for a whole lot of reasons.

1. fear


2. Ignorance


3. prejudice


4. cultural issues


5. peoples personal issues


6. power and control


7. arrogance and judgment


8. human beings acting badly

What i find interesting is that all this goes on also in community organisations and in corporate life.

of course we expect things to be different in the church…….they are usually better……but still dealing with human beings.

I think in lifes journey one can’t help but get burned by something or someone. The burning is not the issue. It is the way we respond.

i still believe what I used to preach. “In life we either become bitter or better. Our response to life’s circumstances determine which one we become”

I would be totally justified to be bitter and resentful towards the Assemblies of God who abandoned me…..my friends who betrayed me…..but I chose to forgive. They still live with the wrong until they say sorry. For the last 20 years I have been free.

Hi all,

It has been an interesting journey for me as a Christian. I guess you could say that I am blessed with being Deaf in that I was protected from all these issues. My Deafness acted like a shield for me and enabled me to live my life as a Christian and being Gay.

I love it when people say “but you don’t look so gay” makes me chuckle a little. I wonder if I gave the male counterpart a full mouth washing kiss might just do the trick. I think I’d be litterally burnt on the stake for that. Seriously though… it does depend on one’s own conviction and strenght of your own ability to stand firm.

These days I can spin the conversation around and get them to see what they just did which goes against the bible. I think by being polite and considerate, it helps people to know that what they did or how they reacted was human and they didn’t demonstrate God’s unconditional love.

I left Hawkesbury to go to Liverpool because I sense a shift in my direction, although I have been welcomed back at Hawkesbury. They don’t know that we are “Gay”. Liverpool Deaf Church knows that we are “Gay” and they struggle with it… I just make it real and that they are not demonstrating the real unconditional love and I said to them I have unconditional love for them that I don’t hold what they were or are doing against them. In the process I decided that I wanted to be a Catholic just to annoy Liverpool Church (chuckles) but seriously to raise the bar in spiritual understanding under the Deaf Catholic Community. I took on St Francis of Assisi’s name, I feel at peace with myself and I enjoy my life as a Catholic.

Being burnt doesn’t have to happen. Its about making a choice and sticking by it and I tell people if they have problems, to take it to God and then discuss it with some common sense and of course, with unconditional love. I have choosen not to accept rudeness in my life, and I expect people to discuss the matter on grounds of respect. If that does not happen, I’m happy to say good night and when people of the bible can be a bit more respectful and considerate that we can discuss with calmness and work through the issues.

Via F2B which is a fabulous site on its own, I have this strong conviction about my sexuality and I am really comfortable with who and what i am. I know God’s unconditional love and I stand by that. To be burnt – by Church. Its just gutless on their part. I guess I’d say that I forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing and I pray for God’s mercy and unconditional love (I talk about God’s unconditional love alot these days eh?). 🙂

At Hawksbury I saw special visitors who came and preached say really awful things about Gay people… I never see him again. My prayer was that God take the responsibility off them because they failed to show God’s unconditional love and the fact that they were actually harming God’s children wtih so untruth.

When I was an LDS (I’m still a member of that church too) there was a person of a high position that demanded the sign language interpreters to sit on chair on the floor below the speakers making is difficult for Deaf people to watch interpreters and the speaker. I confronted that with a publication which included a photo of the president and the interpreter standing next to the person signing.

I also said that if they did not behave in a good faith and in good manners, that God will take it off them. I also said that sometimes God goes to extreme measures to correct the issue, he just might take them home at some point in their lives and enables us to move forward. This person went away, and the interpreter was back on the stage with the speakers… he shown up unannouced one Sunday and demanded the interpreter to be put back on the floor … I was annoyed and I prayed. Next Sunday the Bishop asked if he could talk wtih us… sure no problem… we went into the offic e with the Bishop and he said that brother so and so went to Tonga and had a heart attack and passed away. I told him that I was not surprise because that’s what happens when one abuses its own powers that were not God given and it would only be natural that God had to take some extreme measures to take him home.

LIkewise the people who are hard to move on Gay issues, I just look at God and say “you are in control”, “thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven”. I might have a crack at it and it depends on their response that I will confront and move on from that. I never take anything personal. They have a responsibility under God and I just hand it over to him.

That is not to say that Im a strong person of all means… I;m not… I just refuse to allow anyone the opportunity to behave in a deplorable manner that they will regret at a later stage.

😉

May God bless and shine his Unconditional love on you all.

Craig.

Somewhere in the middle of all the confusion and conflict and communication we call “church” and “Christianity”, is that kernal of truth about God and faith and commitment/contact.

Problem is, we fallible human beings have – over many centuries – surrounded that kernal with just so much ‘packaging’ (structures, interpretations, worship styles, different points of emphasis, etc., etc.).

I’ve learnt to accept and enjoy the ‘packaging’ I like – but not at the expense of losing that ‘kernal of truth’.

Most of the anti-gay attitudes and beliefs and pronouncements held by Christians are just part of their packaging and based on ignorance – after all, they haven’t been on (are not on) the journey of enlightenment/understanding we are on.

Don’t give up on God even if some of the surrounding human packaging is fake or faulty.

I really like your perspective too, Forestgrey. :bigsmile: It really resonates with me around my perspective of my core belief in God and the central place he has in my life as opposed to the negatives – the judgement / ignorance that are expressed by many within the Christian Churches.

I also particularly like AVB’s comment – “In life we either become bitter or better. Our response to life’s circumstances determine which one we become”. So true!

🙂

yeah Anthony, I do love the space we create… its just so good to be back home.

Hugs.

Craig.