Hi Sandy

It took me a while. I wonder if you are talking about Hebrews 6:4-6: ‘It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.’

To me this is part of the mystery of scripture because if it means what it says, Raskdog and I are doomed to some fate I cannot begin to comprehend. However, my heart is actually still yearning to be the kind of human that God through Christ can still use to touch the lives of broken and dying people on a daily basis. (Many people living with HIV depend on me for practical and emotional support through the course of my work).

If I was given the job of deciding on the canon of scripture I’d actually cut this bit out because I find it somewhat offensive, if you understand what I mean? I actually think that to view the Bible as infallible attempts to negate the fact that human beings decided what we read as God’s word. What about all the bits that were excluded? Society’s attitudes to the Bible suggest it is often misunderstood because we’ve been taught that it is a non-negotiable document.

In any case the issue of ‘falling away’, ‘backsliding’ or ‘struggling with faith’ is common to man. When my daughter died suddenly at the age of 2, my ex-wife banned Pentecostals from my home because they told her to praise God for her daughter’s death. (As if grief was sin???) My own hell was holding the body of my little girl in a suburban morgue and screaming for someone to relieve me of my pain. Those minutes felt like hours of hollowness and separation from God even though my tongue was speaking in the language of angels the whole time. (I had believed that God had healed my daughter just weeks before). You yourself have experienced immense pains of grief so I am sure you understand what I am speaking about.

A few years later when I walked across a bed of burning coals chanting a heathen ritual, I was totally embraced by the Jesus I cried to for help and was completely restored in my faith. I was widely used as a speaker and preacher during those years. So how do I interpret Hebrews that says it is impossible for me to be brought back to repentance?

After divorce my own children were exposed to a stepfather, a minister of God whose abuse ripped all appreciation of God out of their hearts. My son is still angry that I choose to belong to a church, claiming that taking him to church in his formative years was damaging. Yet he never experienced the sexual abuse at church that I experienced as a child. So much is relative that I can’t help but believe that the Bible is relative too. Perhaps I’m wrong.

Kit

All I can say on the subject is I find it frustrating individuals find the bible so relative, that they feel justified in picking and choosing from the word of God bcause some bits don’t fit well with them.

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As I said previously every single person does that. Anyone who claims to live 100% what the Bible said is a liar or deluded. Not to mention very confused, as the Bible flat out contradicts itself. For example in Corinthians Paul says that it is good to remain single. A couple of verses later he says that it is good for a man to marry. Which is it?

I do understand your greif to the extent that anyone can understand anyone else, but for me it does not negate the objective word of God.

There is no such thing as the objective word of God.

I find it simply amazing that you would defend people who treated you like you say they did.

This discussion is pointless because neither of us is willing to budge at all. Though I will defend the alleged contradiction in the bible. Paul indeed does say it is good to remain single and it is good to marry so that we don’t burn with lust. The point isn’t that one is good and one is bad, marriage was instituted by God Himself at creation and deemed good. The idea is that while marriage is “good” singleness is “better”. Why? Because one day Jesus will return and the heavens and earth will be restored. In this new creation marriage has no relevance because we are all “brides of Christ” or so to speak. Marriage is “good” but singleness is “better” because marriage is earthly and not lasting and singlness allows you to expend more time and energy on the gospel and not be diverted by a husband, wife or children.

Another things that bugs me is people taking three words out of the bible and holding them up by themselves, no context, no explanation. Using that genuis so many claims could be made that are frankly ridiclous, all you would have to do is open revelation a select a random paragraph. If we are going to discuss this at all lets do it with some academic integrity ok?

Another things that bugs me is people taking three words out of the bible and holding them up by themselves, no context, no explanation. Using that genuis so many claims could be made that are frankly ridiclous, all you would have to do is open revelation a select a random paragraph. If we are going to discuss this at all lets do it with some academic integrity ok?

Sure. If you would care to show me which three words I took out of context. And if we are going to have some academic integrity can we please use proper grammar?

How do you explain the fact that one of the ten commandments was, “Thou shall not kill”, yet numerous times God told the Israelites to kill the inhabitants of the land?

LOL, sorry I probably shouldn’t laugh… actually I know I shouldn’t laugh its just… kind of cute that you got stuck on my grammer which was in esscence more of a typo. You have my most humble appoligies. 😆

As far as your latest question goes raskdog here is what I think. Maybe my responce is fruitless but I reply for two reasons, firstly my own character flaws prevent me from leaving well enough alone 😆 and secondly I belive that my discussing and defending my point of view I am in a small way glorifying God. The point isn’t whether you belive me really, in fact I get the feeling that nothing I can say on the topic will convince you. The point, for me anyway, is that my defence shows I truely belive what I say and am willing to stick up for God’s word, something which has value to him regardless of the outcomes.

One of the ten commandments is indeeed “You shall not murder” (Ex 20:13) and the Isralites do indeed kill people. What you see though is that the battles that take place have a wider purpose than simply getting the Isrealites into the promised land. God is just, and he exacts his justice on the sinful through the Isrealites, the battles serve a dual purpose. To punish the guilty enemies who have done various evils like worship idols or indulge in orgies and to keep his promises to Israel. Take a look at Deut 9 where the Isralites attack the anakites and you will see what I mean. Also take the book of Micah as an example, its a bit random I know but I have been studing it recently and I think it serves as a good example.

We see that there is a difference between when God decides to murder someone because they are unbelieving and sinful and when people do. Take the example of Moses killing the Egyptian man who beat on the Israelite slave back in Egypt. All throughout the bible Moses is refered to as a murderer and it was only Moses fleeing Egypt and not God’s divine intervention personally that saved him, Moses had sinned because it was not on God’s authority and for God’s purposes that he killed the man.

I hope that clears some things up. I think to an extent AVB is right, this conversation could go for twenty pages and we would only be brushing the surface of your questions and you anger at bible believing Christians. I admire you willingness to ask though and suggest that you get in contact with a church pastor or minister who has much more expertise and experience answering these questions than I do.