Living Waters.. What do you say?

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Joined in 2006
August 15, 2008, 00:01

Hey guys, finally got back onto the forums

Just the last few days have been troubled by something my Dad has said. He is the sort that doesnt want to accept its a natual thing to be gay.

He really non tactfully asked me to come to a Living Waters run service at the local Anglican church this Sunday. The theme is “people with unwanted same sex attractions, how to treat them with care”. I asked Dad why he wanted to go, since he isnt a homosexual with same sex attractions. He said he wasnt going for him but to understand more. I give him credit that he wants to learn more, but it saddens me that it is from that view.

He challenges me saying these days I just listen to who I want to listen to, to justify my lifestyle. I calmly say the same back to him. I dont get that he can discredit my walk and the hard yards it has come to get to this point, and if i even slightlym challenge his position he is offended and palms it off as I am deluded. Such a frustating situation BUT the thing that upsets me the most… knowing there is a guy speaking to a group of people on Sunday, informing them that people can change their sexuality and that he has done this himself. Makes me sad on so many levels.

Youth Coordinator
Joined in 2008
August 15, 2008, 01:07

Lloyd mate,

This makes me heaps sad and angry at the same time.

I feel for you man. This is a difficult situation.

It is hard because the leaders of ex-gay programs like ‘living waters’ honestly believe that they are doing the right thing. They believe that they are acting in love and ‘helping’ the homosexual.

My advice to you would be for you to not go. This will cause you too much distress and hurt for you to go personally.

If your Dad really wants to go then maybe let him. As long as he keeps open minded. After all you can’t really stop him if he wants to go, just pray for him to keep an open heart and mind and not believe everything he hears.

Lloyd man I am here for you. Having been through 3 years of ex-gay programs and reparative therapy (some were associated with living waters). I am still trying to get through the emotional and psychological issues that the programs caused.

Good luck mate. It is tough. I, like many others at F2B are here for you and if I can help in any way let me know. 😀

ps. It saddens me each time I hear that someone is an ex-gay because it would be so hard for them. Also the fact that if these people were being truly honest with you then they would admit that nothing has really changed – That the feelings and desires still remain, that they are not really straight but just gay men and women who are lying to themselves.

Joined in 2006
August 15, 2008, 08:24

I would never consider going… I think it just upset me to think about all the undoing they are doing for causes like ours. Know what I mean?

I do see my Dad, and them, trying to do this in their way of loving, they want the best for us.

I did the psychologist thing to get me fixed and that was screwed up. My mum went through the same sort of thing for a few years with Choices and some other programs, which only caused a lot of pain and confusion and a damaging mental state.

My Dad is going to the service of course, and I think for him, he is going cause he NEEDS to know you can change, otherwise life is more scary if they arent as black and white as everything else seems to be.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
August 15, 2008, 10:59

it really depends where you are at Lloyd I think. Personally I love those opportunities…but it is where I’m at… know resolved on all levels. There is nothing that could ever shake my knowledge of who I am…..I’ve just done too much reading. But I had that unshakable confidence before I began reading actually…..something inside me just knew I was okay and God was no more concerned about my sexual orientation than whether I was left handed or not.

Here are some suggestions.

1. You could go so that you can ask pertinent questions. I could give you a list a mile long if you like.

2. If you go… know exactly what your Dad has heard so that if he questions anything you know where he is coming from.

3. It will show your Dad that you love and respect him.

4. You could say…..Dad…..yes I will go with you….but in all fairness….if you really want to understand things then why don’t we go to both a PFLAG meeting and this Living Waters one….then you really have a clear idea and not just a one sided view.

what do you think?

Joined in 2008
August 15, 2008, 12:51

Hey Lloyd

Sounds like its a really hard place at the moment with you & your Dad, so sorry 🙁

I also did living waters & although they have good intentions, lots of damage is done.

What ever you choose, make sure that you look after yourself first! Then you can continue to be strong & loving with your Dad.

Hope it goes well mate 🙂

Penny xxx

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
August 15, 2008, 13:59

the other thing too Lloyd is that we have lots of resources and research available on this and other ex-gay ministries……so if you or your Dad needs any of this then let us know.


Joined in 2007
August 16, 2008, 22:08

hey avb, what are some of the pertinent questions you usually asks when dealing with courses like living waters?

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
August 17, 2008, 00:05

I wonder whether I should post them here……you never know who is reading……what do you think.

Joined in 2006
August 17, 2008, 07:17

Yes please 😀

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
August 17, 2008, 10:02

there is a particular one that needs to be ask of the living waters leader but I wouldn’t post it here publicly…….I’ll tell you personally Nick on the 5th.

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