Taboo Topics - What do YOU think?

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Joined in 2007
March 14, 2008, 02:27

STOP! All of you. I don’t want this anymore. This thread started out with several people apologizing and now you’ve gone quickly back to tearing each others head off again in the name of expressing yourself. It seems like some kind of spirit of contention has taken over this group.

I was invited to this site by Anthony in response to some inquiries to him about hints for publishing a manuscript I had written. He encouraged me to come here and share some of my story with you. I posted some articles in an effort to share at a much needed time in my life and to get some feedback on some ideas I had with my book and my experience. The first thing that happened was that I got slam-dunked for some of my thoughts and ideas. That hurt a lot but at least I learned how some people might react to some of my material. However, I posted as a friend and fellow traveler, not as a writer or one seeking enterprise, someone that was going through a rough time and at a crossroads in my personal life and ministry. It shook me.

I asked a question that I feel did not get answered. I was asking why so many are registered on this site and so few participate. Perhaps this is why. We didn’t come here to get shot down. Most of us have enough holes in us already to last a lifetime. We come here excited in thinking we have found a sincere place to rest and share our journey and then quickly encounter some harsh reaction that seems unnecessary.

There are a couple of women here who have shown a warm and loving spirit in the way they respond to others. I won’t call their names but I am grateful for their attitude.

I said in one post here that we gay people are making the same mistakes that we accused our straight church counterparts of making, claiming to love and care on one hand and ripping each other up on the other. This verbal slaughter of one another appears to be coming mostly from the home group on this site. I feel that you are harming me and also others who are coming here for some kind of fellowship and understanding.

Frankly, changing the topic is not the answer. I think changing our attitude is. In all of this you have caused me to look more closely at myself and the way I come across to others, to gauge myself more carefully in the things I say.

You can rip me apart if you want to. I won’t be here to listen. I don’t need this. I’m sorry. I have enough problems in my own life and with my own relationship and in trying to find God’s will for me in this hour. Allow me to say one more thing. We gay people are going to blow our final chance to make a difference in the lives of others and in the world by this endless bickering. Millions of our own kind are still lost on their journey and cannot find hope and yet we who have been spared want to argue and fight among ourselves. What a waste and sad state. I assure you that it’s happening here on this side of the pond also and I can’t stand it.

By the grace of God, I wish all of you well and my best wishes to Anthony and all that he endeavors for the sake of our people.


Joined in 2008
March 14, 2008, 03:55

Robert, you are absolutely right. I am so sorry if I have aided in the arguing. I appologize from the bottom of my heart to every one on this site. If I have said anything to upset, offend, or divide I am so sorry.

Joined in 2006
March 14, 2008, 08:58

You know that there is a saying that a house divided cannot stand, it seems that yes contention has come in and maybe some boundaries need to be drawn up. It is a great site and if for the sake of the many some need to be reprimanded about their argumentative nature then so be it in my opinion, surely we are mature enough to curb our tongues. Debates are healthy but arguments are not (please I dont need a dictionary defination of the terms to prove a point 😆 )

Anyone can find something to argue about in anything, anyone can band together and take sides against anyone, why do it??? For the sake of peoples already brittle emotions and years of pain love first, LOVE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once a truth is presented let people make up their own minds and not be force fed, whatever that truth is.

Im peeking at the site sorry 😆 but I do feel God on my back about the site but prayerfully, if you can receive that. Too many people unhappy and pulling back, some letting us know privately some publically. We are being honest here very honest and one day I hope we can look back on all this and say, wow what a time we came through 😯 people lit some matches then complained that their was a fire for no reason without realising that without the lit match everything wouldve been unburnt.

Darn, Jesus and his parables and such have rubbed off or what? 😆 😉

I am passionate about this forum and but more than that passionate about looking out for the ones who need a soft place to land.

Sorry I will go away yet again.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
March 14, 2008, 11:18

Robert……I’m so sorry that you have been hurt here. I’m sure I can speak for everyone to say that it was never intentional. there are lots of reasons why this has happened. All of them I regret.

I think Roberts post is a reminder of why i work so hard to keep this a safe space.

One of the reasons why it is so important is that we have some very fragile people who come here. Some have been very hurt. Some have developed mental health issues because of the internal dissonance with the perceived conflict between their faith and their sexuality. We need to be sensitive of that. that is also one of the reasons that our chapter meetings are cruise free zones. People are often dealing with a lot of stuff and the last thing they need is other complications or to be told they are wrong.

maybe its time to lock this discussion I think that probably everyone has said what they need to say. I originally started it to gauge what everyone was feeling out there. I think we’ve all got a pretty good idea now.

Joined in 2007
March 14, 2008, 14:13

I confess that I have absented myself from this site for long periods of time because of the contentiousness that so often seems to become a part of the discussion.

If Freedom2Be is meant as a hospice of sorts, then I feel that it is meant to be a place of recovery.

If it was meant to be a place for surgery, and incision to remove the hurts then it would be billed as a hospital, would it not?

Billing it as a hospital would possibly imply the need for cure, when what most of us are seeking here is rest and recovery from the ‘cure’ applied to us in other places.

My order, the order of St Benedict places a great emphasis on prayerful silence, not that the silence should merely be the absence of words, but that it should rather be the active presence of listening.

I feel I accomplish more by listening than by speaking most of the time.

These are just my thoughts, my opinions and are not posted with any intention of stirring more strife.


Sister Meg Britton n/OSB

March 14, 2008, 18:08

PS………I think people can accept the bible as the infallible word of god but its the interpretation that is the problem. Both can believe in the inerrancy of scripture but some interpret the verses that refer to homosexuality differently as has happened down through the centuries on a whole range of issues. eg Womens role in the church, slavery, make up, rock music, abortion to name a few.

Infallible and inerrancy of the bible “word of god” (English Translation or any others translation even Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, Byzantine…) that is really big claim, don’t forget bible undergone so many processes of manuscripts compilation (from roll, codex, papyrus, vellum, cursive…), it does not drop from heaven (I would say “word inspired by god”). As for interpretation I agree, anyone can interpret the scripture to their owned benefit, the question is, is the interpretation based on Christian principle? Is there any valid scripture supporting the argument (not cut and paste some phrase)? Is the supporting scripture being examine in it own biblical time? List goes on…………….

Everyone is entitling to their opinion, any discussion of “sensitive/taboo” issue is healthy, anyone who takes in the “issue” and perceive negatively is their owned risk, and it should not lead into antisocial and nasty behaviors.

We all undergone or undergoing similar journey, no one is above another, one may suffer more then the others, one maybe fragile then others, some may have illnesses, some may have been hurt, some are confuse, but really we all should behave responsibly and learn from one another, set aside what we think is not valid and ask god for guidance. Most of all don’t assume one is greater then others, for the only one who is greater then us and know it all is God.

Dove Snuggler
Joined in 2007
March 14, 2008, 23:57

Hi all

I agree that “Freedom 2B” needs to be a safe space. Otherwise it should be renamed something like “No Way 2B Free” or “Freedom 2B Gay & Celibate”.

I’ve recently been learning some things about my own development as a gay boy by reading the book ‘The Velvet Rage’ by Alan Downs. I’ve told a lot of people that my father pushed me away when I was 11 years old. I always interpreted that he was too British to know better. The Velvet Rage has persuaded me that he knew he’d raised a homosexual and had to stop it one way or another. Leaving me out in the cold for the rest of my life was the best option he could come up with.

That’s just one example of the pain a straight world has inflicted on people who are born gay for no fault of their own. The shame of being different and unacceptable made us grow up needing to validate ourselves … because nothing other than performing or achievement ever gave us the validation straight kids took for granted because they were perceived to be ‘normal’ … we were just poofs or dykes, a fact that nobody in the family would have dared to admit. They were ashamed of us and we learnt to be ashamed of ourselves. We have so much healing to do.

I vote we stay “Freedom 2B”!


Joined in 2008
March 15, 2008, 11:42


AMEN Brother!

I was not going to post on this thread again, but I agreed with all of the proceeding posts after mine so much I just had to comment by saying that I am once again encouraged and uplifted! I believe wholeheartedly that this should be a place for healing.

Lets continue on with a renewed since of love and compassion for every person desperately seeking a place where they are no longer alone and isolated.

Joined in 2007
March 16, 2008, 23:14

I do agree that we need to make this site a safe place for others who want to make comments without condemnation 🙂 . Debate is good because its sharing information 😀 but argueing 😯 .. nah… not so good 🙁 . Arguing means that only one person can be right and the other person is wrong 🙄 . Unfortunately there is no right and wrong when it comes to this F2B. We are all learning and sharing 😀 . The one thing I really like about God is that God is slow to anger but quick to act. Likewise we need to emulate those character 😛 . I’ve a lot to learn.

I really enjoy reading people’s posting and there were points being made which made me think about mine ❗ . It is really important for us to listen and question things for clarifications or add our own experiences or thoughts on the subject 🙂 . These are the things that helps shape our mental capacity which then unlocks other chains that bounds us down through oppression and attitudes given to us – we don’t need these elements that will only make us go backward. 😀

I also love the humour that is displayed 😆 … I love a good giggle/laugh 😆 😀 😆 . We are an interesting bunch of people and I hope that many many more will join in 🙂 😀 🙂 …. Keeping the message short and simple is one way of encouraging people to pop in. Have a great week.



Joined in 2007
March 17, 2008, 13:15

Hmm. What an interesting time to have taken a little break from the forum!

A few thoughts, then, if I may:

I personally would not find it helpful to try and mark off certain topics as ‘taboo’ in any way. It’s more important that we focus on the WAY in which topics are discussed, and try to keep a certain tone.

I partly say that because to me, one of the things the internet is so good at doing is enabling to you find people you have something in common with, and then having discussions about deep, difficult things. There are things I would talk about to gay Christians that I would not talk about to straight Christians or gay atheists, or at the very least talk about in a different way.

On the subject of ‘tone’… AVB has already pointed out how hard it is to communicate without body language. Let’s be realistic, none of us are going to spend hours composing our posts to avoid any chance of misinterpretation, unwarranted implication and the like. I don’t think that’s even possible. Instead, we have to practice not responding to a PERCEIVED attack by raising the temperature. We won’t always get it right. We can try, though.

I do think there’s some value to using “I” statements – in my opinion, I think, etc – not so much for the reader but for the sake of the writer. I don’t practise it religiously by any means, but when I do use that style I find it makes me much more conscious that my opinions are exactly that – mine – and that other people aren’t obliged to have the same ones! So I think it helps lower the temperature a bit.

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