Hi magsdee

Glad I’ve given you food for thought. 🙂

Re the move out of Eden, I don’t believe we lost fellowship with God. Rather, I think that we gave up the idealistic relationship and progressed to something more real with God.

In a way I think the story of creation and beyond is in line with human development. In ideal circumstances, we start life off as babies with loving parents, in a state of illusionment, able to be cocooned, dependent and have our needs met. For those of us lucky to have that, we learn that life is good and we can trust our needs will be provided for. This is a great foundation of stability to start with. And as we grow, it becomes apparent that we can’t always have our every whim granted and so that ideal state of bliss is shattered, hopefully in a gradual way, as we slowly learn to meet some of our own needs and cope with limitations. And so it is with starting off in the safety of Eden and then moving out of that comfort zone.

Moving out of Eden speaks to me about independence, the journey that we all need to take at various times to gain maturity.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on that story..

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Hi magsdee

It’s nice of you to take on board my feedback. 🙂

Just a couple of notes on the above. Intersex conditions don’t necessarily involve both male and female organs although they can. Alternatively they can involve chromosomal differences, hormonal issues, or enlarged, smaller or ambiguous genitalia.

When you say you want to take things from the start of life, what is it you mean?

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Hi magsdee

Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying. Dialogue is good. 🙂

Blessings,

Ann Maree

when I lecture in Bible Colleges……I always begin with the Genesis record.

Here are some of my notes. ©

The Creation Story

God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. We hear that trite, annoying saying too often. Of course the question arises. If God didn’t create Adam and Steve who did? Whenever someone makes that statement to me my usual response is ‘well it’s obvious you understand reproduction but seem to be ignorant about sexual orientation’.

If you believe in a literal 6 day creation and that God made man and woman only to reproduce then I guess there is not much I can do for you. As a Christian, whether you are literalist, creationist, Intelligent Design advocate, believe in Darwin’s theory of evolution, or a mixture of several positions, you are not alone as all beliefs can be found in Christendom. It would be good to point out at this time that many scholars believe that there are actually two different accounts of creation in Genesis written by different authors.

Is the fundamental message of the Genesis record of creation how or who?

Who was in the beginning? On this point I think we would all agree. GOD….existing in a realm you and I will never be able to comprehend as it exists outside the known realm of time and space and our tiny little minds. I don’t think the Bible was ever meant to be a science text book and we have gotten ourselves into trouble believing it to be so. The scientific theories of Galileo and Copernicus are just one of the many examples of scientific discovery challenging the popular Christian worldview of the time. What was once hotly debated amongst the greatest minds of the time and rejected by the church is now taught as fact to children in the first years of primary school. We need to be more cautious about adding the words ‘the bible says’ to our statements lest we reveal the stupidity of our so called ‘blind faith’.



So the question is ‘was God’s intention in making male and female for reproduction only?



Even if you believe the Genesis record of creation you’ll see that God did not create a black and white world of male and female. Creation is not black and white, it is an awe inspiring, amazingly diverse, intricate creation: including sexualities and a variety of non-heterosexual expressions of behaviour, affection and partnering occurring in most species, including humans. We have animals that change gender, animals that are neuter and can become either sex, some reproduce without another partner. For example all barramundi begin their lives as male, changing sex to female at a weight of around 5kg. If you are eating a male barramundi it is probably an illegal fish. It’s interesting to study gender and sex in chickens.

Today we know that same sex behaviours are a common and widespread phenomenon in the animal world and have been observed in more than 1500 species. Not only short-lived sexual relationships, but even long-lasting partnerships; partnerships that may last a lifetime. Some include infant raising as well.

God has made an amazing creation and the ability to reproduce is only a small part of it. Before God created male and female he made an even more insightful statement; ‘it is not good for mankind to be alone’. This is fundamental to all human beings whether they be heterosexual or homosexual. As the Hon. Michael Kirby wrote in the forward to my autobiography ‘’A Life of Unlearning’, “Human stories, like the one in these pages, play a part in advancing understanding and acceptance. It is the story of a quest to find not only self-acceptance but one of the most powerful forces in nature—human love.” Both straight and gay lasting relationships are based on love, trust and commitment, not sex or reproduction. Was this God’s intention?

©

Thankyou to all replies with this, I can now get finger to keyboard and do some tweeking with this 🙂 its great that you can put something raw here and get great feedback to help when youre looking for it 🙂