What Label do you intend to have? Gay / Lesbian or Same Sex Attracted

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man in confusion
Joined in 2009
January 8, 2010, 14:07

Read and be courageous to choose

Brother in Struggle

Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
January 8, 2010, 15:23

Hi man in confusion

Do you subscribe to the views of ‘Courage’? I’ve read the article and disagree with most of the ideas within. The group Courage states that it’s not an ex gay ministry but a pro chastity ministry. However, after reading of their philosophy, I think this is actually a deception. It very much sounds to me that Courage are trying to stop people being gay.

This statement is particularly offensive:

“Homosexual attractions can never lead to a morally good sexual act”. That is a ridiculous statement and one I completely disagree with.

The article also describes homosexual behaviours as part of a “disorder” which medically is not the case. Viewing gay people as disordered DOES diminish their value as human beings despite the article’s efforts to say that they are not dimiinished if they remain chaste. This is conditional and contradictory and God’s love is not like this. The other thing is that celibacy is a special gift and only meant for a select few who are called to it. The catholic church do not seem to understand that celibacy is not meant for everyone to practice, or in this case, every gay person. To believe that every gay man and lesbian should be celibate is setting them up for terrible failure which is cruel and completely unrealistic.

Joined in 2009
January 8, 2010, 18:12

I think different things will work for different people.

This is what works for me: I’m quite happy to say I’m gay. It’s not simply an “attraction” for me – it’s something hardwired into me. I don’t know why, I didn’t choose to be this way, but since I am, there is very little point in trying to be something I am not or trying to “fix what ain’t broken”. I know men who are probably better described as “same sex attracted” (I even had one for a partner for a short while), but it’s not a label that truthfully describes me.

I personally believe that while we are all equal in the eyes of God, this does not mean we are all meant to be the same, have the same destiny etc. If we were, we would not have been created with the diversity of strengths, weaknesses, talents, skills, personalities etc that we have been. I agree with Ann Maree that celibacy is a gift – just like some are given the gift of prophecy or of discernment.

Joined in 2007
January 8, 2010, 18:18

I prefer to label myself human.

The rest is just societal trip trap that has very little meaning, or bearing on who I am. 🙂

man in confusion
Joined in 2009
January 8, 2010, 22:09

Hello All .Please , forgive me if posting that link might have caused any disturbance of any kind to anyone in this forum.

Honestly, if someone could remove it , let him/her do it or teach me how to do it.

Whatever, it is a similar journey that i am being through .Yes, sometimes we are motivated to share thoughts but not noticing that we have hurt others.This is probably what i did.

I did not intend to promote any ex-gay organization.Just needed the feedback. I need to learn from myself and from others for sure.

It is individualized journey in the end.

Hoping that no one hates me or feel angry at me after this message.

I love all and love should be unconditional.

In jesus name, all have peace.

Frogive me ; No more posting of similar links.

Thank you

man in confusion
Joined in 2009
January 8, 2010, 22:24

Hello Ann.

I apologize 100% for causing any disturnace to you or any reader in our forum.I posted already an apology to all and another to Sandy.

I was motivated to post and like becoming active but noticing that i have offended others UNDELIBERATELY.

Please, i hate myself when realizing i have hurt someone;So forgive me for posting that link and will not post any similar content -links again.

Have a beautiful day and thank you .

Your brother in christ.

Joined in 2007
January 8, 2010, 22:59

Hey, its okay!! 🙂 If I could give you a hug I would.

We love having you on this forum and there is no need to feel bad or hate yourself, not at all. This is a safe space where I hope everyone is made to feel comfortable in bringing their issues, concerns and interests to the forefront for discussion and guidence. I think this was simply a misunderstanding. You see for some of us the information contained in that site incites high emotions and we get really riled up because we believe it to be very inaccurate and wrong.

My concern wasn’t that you had posted this but why you had posted it, we are a very unique group and often people come with their own adgendas and try to impose them on us. We know now that this isn’t what you had intened at all and appreciate your very heartfelt responce.

The internet is often a funny way to communicate because we can’t see the person we are talking to, we don’t know their tone of voice or the ways in which they intend things to come across. To compensate for this we are often required to explain ourselves more than we normally would have so that other people don’t misunderstand what we are trying to say. When we post something we generally talk a little bit about why we are posting it. What it is, what it means to us and why we thought it would be useful for other people to read. By doing this other people are made aware of our intentions and situations like this do not arise.

I hope that you will continue to post on the forum and that we may support and assist you in any way possible.

Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
January 9, 2010, 00:40

Hi man in confusion

I appreciate your apology very much. I didn’t know where you were coming from by posting that article and was feeling particularly fragile today. The article seemed contradictory to what you’d said in a previous post and that made me wonder if you were playing games or if you supported an ex gay ministry. Normally I don’t mind reading conflicting or difficult material and analysing it objectively. But today it was all too difficult. Today I thought: ‘Oh God! Is life not hard enough that we have to be exposed to this stuff on a gay site as well?’ Sandy’s right. Had you said something about your position in relation to the article, I wouldn’t have responded so emotionally.

But we live and learn. I’m still getting used to online relating as well. There’s plenty I don’t know and will need guidance from others so please don’t torture yourself. I make mistakes and am fortunate that others are patient with me. The least I can do is extend that same patience to you too.

You are very welcome here. And feel free to say what that article meant to you, why you posted it or if you have any questions. I’m fine with it now because I know you didn’t mean to hurt anyone.


Ann Maree

Joined in 2008
January 9, 2010, 15:17

Hi man in confusion,

It’s perfectly alright to post links on the site, as long as they contribute to the wider faith and sexual orientation discussion here on the forum 🙂

I note that Courage promotes itself as a “chastity” ministry in accordance with the teachings of the Roman Catholic church. This immediately raises a question in my mind: why is this organisation promoting chastity when, for all intents and purposes, I believe that God never intended humankind to live such a life, except for a select few …

You might be interested in some of the posts on this forum which address the topics of gay marriage, gay relationships and legal issues, and whether we should be bound by a hetrosexual model or not 8)

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
January 9, 2010, 15:50

hey man in confusion. Its okay posting this here…I know your inquiry was a genuine one as you are new to this.

The term same sex attracted is a term used by ex-gay style ministries. Generally speaking its not used academically although it does pop up at times.

Most we would use the term same sex oriented……as our orientation is far deeper than just an attraction. Orientation has to do with love, intimacy, affection and partnering. It can also be about identity.

I have no problem calling myself gay or homosexual or poof or anything else for that matter as I’ve totally dismantled the negative connotations to those words. Negative meanings to those words are others perceptions not mine. If someone used them in a derogatory manner to me then that would be a different story. I wouldn’t allow them to speak to me disrespectfully.

I do know some people just don’t like the label gay or lesbian as they still have negative meanings attached to the words.

so we have several things there is behaviour, orientation and identity. Personally I embrace all. Although same sex behaviour for me is in the context of a loving, committed relationship nowadays.

The Roman Catholic Courage

this is a purely RC group which still believe homosexuality is evil, dysfunctional etc and so even though they might accept that they are same sex attracted they remain celibate. The people I’ve met from this group are quite sad really.

The Other Courage Group in the UK

I’ve spoken at this group and know the founder, Jeremy Marks, well. It used to be an ‘ex-gay’ group attached to Exodus but after some time they realised they were going down the wrong path and are now accepting of the same sex orientation. If you got to youtube and search Jeremy Marks you can see his apology for the harm he caused people during those years attached to Exodus.

At freedom 2 b[e] we believe in personal choice about how you might express your same sex orientation.

1. Some see their sexuality as god given as are all of our human needs

2. Some have decided not to be sexually active till they are in a loving and committed relationship

3. A few have chosen to be celibate. this may change if they fall in love with someone.

The choice is yours but we dont go preaching to others about what they should do. That is between them and their God.

We certainly don’t see homosexuality as a sin, sickness or the result of a dysfunctional upbringing.

hope this helps clarify things.

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