Forums

31yo gay guy, Charismatic background but not religious today

Page:   1 2 3
 
 

pingtimeout
 
Joined in 2009
January 7, 2010, 10:46

31 year old gay guy from Perth, formerly heavily involved in the charismatic movement until age 17 and now Christian but non-religious, identified as gay from 18, having gone some way but not all the way to find healing and a way forward.



Hi, I stumbled on this group a few weeks ago, thanks very much for providing an excellent resource. 🙂 It was the first time I’d ever come across gay evangelical Christians and I have watched Ben’s piece on “Hack” and various other things which really made me think. I admire the honesty and trust of those here and I shall try my best to honour that in what I write. I also realise my own path may be different from others here – but in saying so, that there are as many valid paths as there are people. Apologies too for the long post – I couldn’t think of a way to split it up.


On faith


I’m 31, in Perth and I grew up “in the faith” which was real to me as a child. Today, I identify as Christian, I believe in God and in the gospel of Christ, but I don’t attend church, and beyond the basics I honestly don’t know what I believe and my faith is distant from me. I wish it could be different, but it’s not. Why not? I guess there’s an unresolved anger there about what I see as my lost years in the church. It’s dimmed over the years as I’ve grown, but there is always that knowledge that my experience damaged me as a person and I will never be whole again because of it.


I don’t blame the people involved – they thought they were doing the right thing, and were listening far too much to less inspired types from the US and South Africa who were egging them on in less scriptural practices and thinking “these churches were successful so clearly we should follow that”. I also don’t blame God. And I’m able to accept my own share of responsibility for not asking more questions about what I was learning and in particular interrogating it against the Bible and the Gospels.


Childhood


I was 5 when I was first “saved”. Shortly thereafter we moved across the world and settled here. Within 6 months we had found a church (Rhema Family Church, now known as Riverview), which eventually reached 3500-4000 people per week. I went to the children’s church, my parents went to the main church. We got heavily involved – I went to the church’s school, went to church every week without fail, everyone we knew was in the church, you name it. I experienced the “gifts of the spirit” and I saw God clearly at work.


However, my childhood was very isolated – we were taught that people from just about any other faith and even “mainline churches” would contaminate us if we mixed with them. There was some confusion between the church’s message of “faith not works” in terms of salvation, and its crazily long list of “worldly” things one had to avoid doing, seeing, listening to or even wearing, and the requirements on people to do “godly” things including going to endless seminars, retreats and whatever else.


Early adolescence


Around 11 a range of things happened. 1. Ps Brian Baker unexpectedly left the church. Secondly, I was an ‘early developer’ and I started flirting with guys my own age during sleepovers and even at school behind the shed at lunch times. One other boy and I got in trouble and some leaders from the church came in and I think they thought it was their job to ensure we didn’t follow in “that” path. I was taught from then on – quite forcefully – about the alleged evils of gay people, none of whom were normal and every last one of whom was a would-be transexual child abuser with a certain death from AIDS ahead. There was another major event too, but I’d really rather not discuss that – it didnt involve the church.


By 14-15 my self esteem had hit rock bottom, I felt numb and I was doing drugs to try and make myself just feel like a person. I felt ashamed of who I was. I didn’t have a reason for this – more just a general feeling that I was a bad person and God would see me as worse than other people around me.


Moving forward (a little)


I ultimately admitted to my friends I needed help, and three of them really helped me, especially with getting off drugs. (Others simply judged me and stopped being friends, but I was past caring.) Trouble was I fell hopelessly in love with one of them. I’m pretty sure he was bi and that it was not one-way (many things pointed to this) although I’ll never know, we never did anything and by the end of the year we had completely fallen out as friends. I think the whole experience hardened me to the gay side of my feelings and for the next two years (at a different school) I became intensely homophobic. I had an emotional, non-physical relationship with a girl (outside the church but Christian) who was my friend and confidante, and I really had it in my head that we would get married and the reason for my lack of sexual feeling for her was my moral values.


At church, I’d joined the youth group, but it span rapidly out of control, became autonomous and adopted definite cult-like elements. I only stuck with it out of fear of what my parents would think, and the desire to see my friends who also went. In the end, the reason for my severance was that I’d taken 6 weeks off to study for my TEE (read: VCE, HSC etc) exams and the youth leaders felt that this meant I was putting worldly things above godly things. They called my mother and then repeated her words off the phone call, word for word, from the stage as part of the sermon. Entire groups of people (esp the younger ones) had been conspicuously, even fearfully, avoiding me that night. I was so angry and so hurt that I stopped attending that week, and have never been back. I lost friendships as I was now “of the world” in their eyes, I wasn’t part of this chosen few who were going to lead the revival (It never happened, by the way.). I heard that some months later they fired the entire youth team (none of whom by the way were under 25), and about 12 months later the church failed over a naming dispute (with some former pastors taking the name to the Gold Coast) and that was how it, after it restarted, came to be “Riverview”.


Post-church – the healing begins?


Soon after this, my gf died in a car accident. I felt hollow inside. I spent that whole holiday trying to keep as busy as possible and avoided thinking about anything personal. I pulled off three HDs in my first semester. I also realised that I had left the church but not left its mindset behind – I was an angry, hateful, judgemental person who scorned the unfamiliar and looked for fault and “sin” in everyone I met, and I did everything in my power to turn that on its head. I used to make it my mission to talk to a new person every day on the bus – it was my way of forcing myself to understand and accept the world as it was. Nowadays my values and political ideology is probably best summed up as left-wing libertarian. It was a long path getting there, though and the many people who were patient with me and shared their life views, even when (perhaps especially when!) they radically disagreed with my own, were instrumental in that process.


The coming out thing


Although I’d had feelings for guys, I had never thought of myself as being gay. Gay, you see, to me, was all those things I was told about from a young age – it wasn’t me. I remember the moment I realised that I must be … (whatever word I’d come up with for myself). I was in a lecture theatre during a 2 hour lecture, and was in a very bad place. I remember feeling that there was a line and if I crossed it I would be forever condemned in the eyes of God – yet I knew the time was fast coming where that would happen. I nearly became a statistic and the social pressure of sitting in the middle of a lecture theatre was the only thing that saved me – by the end I was still jittery but more able to cope. I started trying to get counselling. Soon after this I discovered the then-embryonic online world and started finding guys who openly identified as gay but were just like me in many ways (my age, dedicated to studies, interested in music, not camp, etc). That was by far the best thing that happened to that point. I had a very, very rocky road over the first 2 or so years I was out, but I learned slowly to live with myself as I really was, not as I dreamed myself to be.


My parents handled the news VERY badly, for about 9 months any trust in our relationship went out the window, and I even got made to listen to Sy Rogers’ tapes and attend one of his sermons at Rhema. As with anything I was willing to listen to what he had to say but I was not convinced. Eventually my parents (who had stopped fellowshipping but still held to the views of the church in general) did accept it – they met various partners over the years and I think came to see the church might have got it wrong about gay people. However it is not discussed openly at home.


At around 20, I read the Bible from cover to cover for the first time in my life. I had never really stopped believing in God, but I remember reading parts – especially those parts the church had emphasised so strongly – and realising that in context they meant way different things to what we had learnt. I think this was a big step for me as I was able to separate “God” and “the church” in my mind – I realised that God was real and that he spoke through his word, but that the word I had received was that of men – well-meaning, faithful men, but men nonetheless.


The future


And now? Just about to embark on a new – maybe scary – part of my work life which will see me develop a lot as a person and understand the world around me a lot better. My life has felt “in limbo” for a few years as changing careers can, but I am actually hopeful for the first time in a long time.


Concluding note


Thank you for reading this far. I’d love to hear others’ input, especially if you’ve come from a similar place or know others who have. I may not be able to answer all questions, as I’ve been meticulous in protecting my privacy in my above disclosures – I don’t doubt almost anyone active in the church at that time would remember me and I think it could be a shock to them that I am where I am today. But I’ll do my best. 🙂



iplantolive
 
Joined in 2008
January 7, 2010, 12:56

Hi pingtimeout


Welcome to Freedom2b[e]. As a non-church christian guy myself, I can relate to your story. I left a pente church a few years ago after a disagreement with the teachings there. It is great that you have made the separation between Gods Word, and how that Word is delivered by men …


Hope to hear more of your journey here on the forum …



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
January 7, 2010, 16:12

Hi pingtimeout


I like the way you’ve told your story with the headings – made it v easy to read.


I too don’t attend a church and haven’t for years. And if anything, my faith in God has matured and deepened because of that. (I know that would be shocking and difficult for most pente’s to believe).The difficult events of my life have made me much more open-minded and compassionate. And I am glad to be the person I am now.


I think you’ve done really well to have processed everything so maturely and it’s great that your parents are at least partly accepting of your sexuality.


I hope you feel welcome and safe at this site. It’s a good place to be and there’s lots of support available.


Blessings,


Ann Maree



Rabid Womble
 
Joined in 2010
January 7, 2010, 20:24

Hiya,


I make this observation about myself and it is not a judgement of anyone else, but I know my spiritual walk is strengthen by being part of a likeminded community.


Being around other people who share similar worldviews, and hold similar values as being important helps me appreciate their strength and actually try and hold to them myself (rather than simply espouse them in word). In particular, I find being part of a church/community helps temper my quick judgements of people and, basically, helps encourage me to be a better person. This is probably not necessary for many people, but I’m a bit of a lazy bastard (two distinct qualities!) and its pretty important for me.


Having said that, since I’ve come out I couldn’t say I’m really part of a community. The small accepting Anglican church I sporadically attend is nothing like the ‘mega’ churches I grew up with and I miss the emotional stirrings of the Charismatic church. Having said that, the first time I attended I was overwhelmed – celebrating God with people who knew I was gay! What a thought! No internal lie, no mask to wear, almost more than I could bear.


Pingtimeout, I would suggest seeking out other people who know you, care for you and share a similar journey but I suspect you are writing on this site to do just that.



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
January 7, 2010, 22:19

Hi Rabid


For many years I would have loved to be part of a faith community (i.e. local church) but couldn’t find one that suited, was local enough or that would accept me as gay. On top of that I have trust issues and have become overly self reliant. I’ve realised there’s still a lot of pain within about this issue. I do definitely feel that my spiritual walk would be strengthened by being part of a like minded community – I’m just not sure it would be helped by exposure to a pentecostal environment. I miss the music but not the manipulations I experienced in the latter.



pingtimeout
 
Joined in 2009
January 7, 2010, 23:04

Thanks for your replies and for welcoming me 🙂 I appreciate it.


Mobileguy – thanks for the kind words, it’s nice to know I’m not alone in my journey!!


Ann Maree – thanks for your kind comments. I’m not actually surprised – I think there is a lot to be gained in self study and in developing one’s own relationship with God. I have often wished I knew how to do that, as I can engage my head but not my heart with it.


And yep, Rabid Womble, I am looking for like-minded people. Certainly if there’s any events or groups in Perth I’d be interested in getting involved / helping out. It can be somewhat lonely when you’re stuck between two worlds.


My former Pentecostal friends, if I feel comfortable telling them at all, don’t understand that for me, being straight is as unnatural and weird as being gay would be for them, and I don’t ask them to be like me. I came out to a close friend at 18 and he seemed OK at first but saw it as a lifestyle and a choice and at one point literally told me “Either stop being gay or stop being my friend.” Some of it’s generational – my 30s demographic is generally speaking (in wider society) less tolerant than those just emerging from their teens now. But I think some of it is people assume there is a Way Things Are which is true universally for everybody.


I have issues with the gay community too – here in Perth it’s very insular and, as with anywhere, rather hedonistic. I think I went on the ‘scene’ for a grand total of 4 weeks in my teens. I have a low sex drive and have never been interested in promiscuity – I’d be a liar not to admit I have done a few things in my time (especially in the first couple of years) but come away feeling cold and empty and I’ve learned from it and haven’t tried them again. Additionally some of my gay friends think Christianity itself is somehow intrinsically anti-gay, and are too closed-minded to accept any alternate view.



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
January 8, 2010, 00:29

You are welcome pingtimeout.


I recall avb talking about the polarisation that can happen within the gay community as well as outside of it. I seem to think it’s amplified for those of us from pente/evangelical backgrounds. We come from being used to these very experiential spiritual highs and lows and nothing matches up to those anywhere else. In my opinion there were a lot of extremes and surreal occurrences that were difficult to reconcile with the more mundane pace of everyday life. So it was hard to adjust after being kicked out of the church.


It was not easy for me to take on self study and took many years to adjust. Maybe I made it sound like it was easy? You said you wish you could engage your heart in that and don’t know how to. Do you mean that it’s hard after being guided, encouraged, supported and spoon fed within the church? I found that pentecostalism cossetted me from the real world and suddenly when I was out, it was frightening. I look back on that experience as being like a prisoner who once out of jail, was completely lost, not knowing how to survive on her own. In terms of beliefs, the sky was the limit and I was unused to being surrounded by so much free thought. It was daunting no longer being told what to believe.


I too have gay friends who are anti church, religion/spirituality because of gay bashing they’ve endured and they make a cross sign and hiss like cats if I even accidentally mention anything that might sound God-like! It’s a shame because I love God and know that the creator is not responsible for the behaviours of humans. And in the past I’ve gone to lesbian groups and couldn’t relate to the women there at all. We didn’t seem to have anything in common. It was a strange place to be – like a limbo land of not belonging anywhere.


I must say that this site has given me some hope, to know that I can talk about both faith and sexuality issues is really great. At the same time I worry that I might offend others with some of my views and hope this is not the case.



pingtimeout
 
Joined in 2009
January 8, 2010, 02:04

That prisoner metaphor is actually a really good one! I felt exactly like that in my first year in uni. For the first time in my life I was surrounded by non-Christians, by people of other races and faiths, people who challenged everything I’d been taught all my life basically.


It’s too long a story for here but I was already quite separated from the church in spirit a long time before they got rid of me. While I’d basically stopped listening to what the church had to say, I’d internalised a hell of a lot of it growing up so a lot of my world view was still very much the church’s, it was only when I left that I could move on from it.


Re your experience – I also went to a gay youth group and a camp at 19-20 for a brief period and like your experience, we didnt seem to have anything in common. I actually felt more alone surrounded by people, because it reminded me how different I was to them.



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
January 8, 2010, 17:39

Thank you. I think the disorienting experience of finding ourselves out of our comfort zones is a necessary part of maturity. Those circumstances are a way of breaking us out of the limiting moulds we have set for ourselves to find greater, higher truths. And although difficult, we also discover strengths and abilities we never knew we had, and so the world opens up. New opportunities present themselves and we grow and develop.


Feeling alone in a group, especially when we have high hopes and expectations of that group fulfilling a vital need for belonging, can be particularly devastating. In the early stages of coming to terms with my sexuality, I focused a lot of time and energy on this area, as many do. Part of my seeking supports, as already mentioned, included attending lesbian discussion and social groups. What I discovered there was the most varied groups of women you could find from all walks of life, and I found that the topic of sexuality was just as varied. It seemed that a lot of the women had very different ideas of what it was to be lesbian and many were threatened by any alternative suggestions. (And this kind of threw a spanner in the works for the purposes of discussion. Their minds were set, they didn’t want to consider anything new and the atmosphere became very uncomfortable if anything challenged their beliefs, so discussions quickly came to a close). I remember thinking: ‘If we can’t even agree on definitions of sexuality or comfortably agree to have differences with respect, what hope is there for other topics? And what is the purpose of this group, if not for discussion? And if they respond so defensively to someone who’s not against them, then how do they respond to those who are, and how badly does that reflect on our community?’ It was the strangest thing pondering these matters, feeling even less certain about lesbians and whether I wanted to identify with them when some of the most dominating members were hardly great role models. It was strange because I thought I’d find support whereas what I discovered was some nice women (a couple I’m still friends with) amongst a majority of lesbians with lots of complex problems. I hope that doesn’t sound harsh and maybe I just had bad luck in the 2 groups I went to. I’d be interested in others’ experiences of lesbian groups as a comparison. And maybe my expectations were just way too high.



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
January 8, 2010, 23:45

Hi Womble,

Being around other people who share similar worldviews, and hold similar values as being important helps me appreciate their strength and actually try and hold to them myself (rather than simply espouse them in word). In particular, I find being part of a church/community helps temper my quick judgements of people and, basically, helps encourage me to be a better person.

Fellowship with like minded individuals is possible to be found outside of a church setting, and in my experience while they’re like minded, they are also more open minded outside of Churches.


I’ve learned more, and grown more by taking time to fellowship with Christian/God believing people outside of Churches than I ever learned while I was sitting in a church-seat, listening to and swallowing down every word that proceeded from the mouth of the pastor without ever questioning it.


Without making judgments on anyone who still goes to church, I have to say that my experience without church is a lot richer.


I think that each of us needs to find that thing which works best for him or herself and allow others the space to do the same. 🙂


Page:   1 2 3
 
WP Forum Server by ForumPress | LucidCrew
Version: 99.9; Page loaded in: 0.107 seconds.