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45YO Intersex 'female' - Uniting Church

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Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
May 16, 2010, 01:25

Hi Andrea


You are kind. 🙂 And yes I agree that the spirit of the word is dynamic and applicable to real life and all it’s complexities. That’s a great comfort. At the same time I have a thirst to know about the origins of scripture and to seek greater understanding about the original meanings and contexts.



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
May 16, 2010, 01:29

Hi Andrea


I very much like the way you think and express yourself. 🙂 And yeah, what is it about society and the need for those neat little boxes?


Blessings,


Ann Maree



Andrea H
 
Joined in 2010
May 16, 2010, 22:36

Hi Andrea


I very much like the way you think and express yourself. 🙂 And yeah, what is it about society and the need for those neat little boxes?


Blessings,


Ann Maree


Hi Ann Maree,


Thank-you, you are too kind, again!


Unfortunately the little boxes we like to use to categorise people make us comfortable in some way. I think it is about being able to work out where things fit for us, so we can either relate them to our own experiences and help us understand or so that we have enough control over them to put them somewhere that makes sense to or doesn’t threaten us.


I of all people should know better than to do this, but I still find myself doing it from time to time regardless of my efforts not to do so. As a result of my experiences with the Baptist Church, whenever someone mentions they are involved with the Baptist Church I immediately put that person into a certain ‘box’. All people from the Baptist Church are not like the people that I had a disagreement with all those years ago. A friend of mine is a Baptist minister who is absolutely lovely and as a member of our Social Justice Committee I have interactions with a Baptist Social Justice Group the people on which are also lovely. I still put my Baptists in boxes before I get to know them though, every single time. It is very bad that I do this every single time too. Sadly, I think there is a lot of truth to the saying “once bitten, twice shy” and for many of us our ‘boxing up’ of people and things is because someone or something has hurt us in the past that we cannot (and it is arguable sometimes we should not) let go.


I do know that there would be a lot less grief in the world if we didn’t put people and things in boxes, it is one of our least Christlike qualities as people. We were never meant to be perfect though and as long as we know we do it and work hard to overcome it, I think that is all any of us can do.


Kindest thoughts and God bless,


Andrea



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
May 17, 2010, 14:39

Quite possibly we all have triggers from our past experience Andrea…….and they pop up for us every now and then causing us to perceive things in ways that are no longer reality.


I find myself constantly coming in contact with people who were involved in churches 10, 15 or 20 years ago and speak about things as they were then……not realising in many situations things are no longer as they were……some churches and christians have moved on……but the LGBTI person hasn’t been able to.



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
May 17, 2010, 21:26

Hi Andrea


Unfortunately the little boxes we like to use to categorise people make us comfortable in some way. I think it is about being able to work out where things fit for us, so we can either relate them to our own experiences and help us understand or so that we have enough control over them to put them somewhere that makes sense to or doesn’t threaten us.


Yes, I think there’s truth in that. It’s a survival mode, from some primitive part of us, I believe. It creates an ‘us and them’ or ‘divide and conquer’ mentality that’s not only unnecessary but harmful in our society. I think you’re right to accept there will be times we are imperfect in this way however. I’ve come to realise that judgments are not always a bad thing but necessary to function well and discern. It’s when they limit someone else or create an exclusion that they become a problem. At those times, I think it’s good to be aware of inner prejudice and gently explore what might be behind that.


Blessings,


Ann Maree



Andrea H
 
Joined in 2010
May 17, 2010, 22:56

Quite possibly we all have triggers from our past experience Andrea…….and they pop up for us every now and then causing us to perceive things in ways that are no longer reality.


I find myself constantly coming in contact with people who were involved in churches 10, 15 or 20 years ago and speak about things as they were then……not realising in many situations things are no longer as they were……some churches and christians have moved on……but the LGBTI person hasn’t been able to.


Hi Anthony,


I absolutely agree, and I was certainly one of the people that spoke about “the church” as if it was a collective mind made up of people who all thought the same way. I thought that way for just under 18 years. It was my best friend and her attitudes and work for the church, and her pointing out to me that there is no such thing as “the church” there are many churches all made up of many people with many different views. It took her to start to make me question, then accept, my views were wrong. Don’t get me wrong, I still meet people who have been genuinely hurt by their experiences with some people in some churches, but at least what I can do now is offer them the realisation from my own experiences that there are faith communities out there that will support and love them without wanting to label or turn them into an object of sympathy.


I sometimes reflect on the time I spent away from a faith community and wonder what I might have done in that time had I thought about these things earlier, been challenged earlier. There is no doubt in my mind though that God intended the part of my faith journey that led me back to happen when it did with the people it did so that I would appreciate it in a way I otherwise would not have.


Kindest thoughts and God bless,


Andrea



Andrea H
 
Joined in 2010
May 17, 2010, 23:04

Hi Andrea


Unfortunately the little boxes we like to use to categorise people make us comfortable in some way. I think it is about being able to work out where things fit for us, so we can either relate them to our own experiences and help us understand or so that we have enough control over them to put them somewhere that makes sense to or doesn’t threaten us.


Yes, I think there’s truth in that. It’s a survival mode, from some primitive part of us, I believe. It creates an ‘us and them’ or ‘divide and conquer’ mentality that’s not only unnecessary but harmful in our society. I think you’re right to accept there will be times we are imperfect in this way however. I’ve come to realise that judgments are not always a bad thing but necessary to function well and discern. It’s when they limit someone else or create an exclusion that they become a problem. At those times, I think it’s good to be aware of inner prejudice and gently explore what might be behind that.


Blessings,


Ann Maree


Hi Ann Maree,


It is really important for us all to reflect on who we are and what our prejudices are, as we have both said though in a way that shows some respect for ourselves and the fact none of us is perfect. It is very easy for us to become too self-critical of things that are just human nature, but our humanity shows when we are able to recognise this in ourselves and, as you say, “gently explore what might be behind that” and do our best to overcome our prejudices. It can be done and there is no doubt many of us sharing our experiences on this forum have done exactly that.


Kindest thoughts and God bless,


Andrea



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
May 18, 2010, 15:36

Hi Anthony,


I sometimes reflect on the time I spent away from a faith community and wonder what I might have done in that time had I thought about these things earlier, been challenged earlier. There is no doubt in my mind though that God intended the part of my faith journey that led me back to happen when it did with the people it did so that I would appreciate it in a way I otherwise would not have.


Kindest thoughts and God bless,


Andrea


Possibly my favourite quote in the whole world belongs here. You’ll see it regularly appear on the forum.


‘People who exist at the margins of society are very much like Alice in Wonderland. They are not required to make the tough decision to risk their lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery. They have already been thrust beyond the city’s walls that keep ordinary people at a safe distance from the unknown. For at least some outsiders, “alienation” has destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the mythic hero’s path to the possibility of discovery. What outsiders discover in their adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the courage to repudiate self-contempt and recognise their “alienation” as a precious gift of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did not sanction. At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the victim is no longer a victim.’


‘The Mythology of Transgression – Homosexuality as a Metaphor’

by Jamake Highwater



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
May 18, 2010, 20:20

Hi Andrea


Isn’t it great that we can overcome our predjudices? This is the good news – that we are all capable of changing for the better. And we can do it with a sense of open enquiry, learning and respect of ourselves rather than in a guilt ridden and self punishing way. The result is a sense of freedom and greater love for all. 🙂


I also love how you highlight that even our failings become great teachers when we pay attention to them. Nothing is wasted. And in my experience, I have learnt to love even my lesser sides, to see the potential for beauty coming out of darkness rather than suppressing or denying that part of myself. Taking this stance has been transformative, facilitating the gain of more wholeness and deeper self acceptance, in turn, leading to greater acceptance of others in their imperfect states. It’s made me realise how God sees us, as completely loveable despite our flaws and frailties. I find that very moving to reflect on.


Blessings,


Ann Maree


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