I do think some scripture gets tossed around flamboyantly, without any real understanding of meaning or application and people get on some strange trains of thought, you do have to be so careful as a Pastor or preacher how you feed your congregation and such. No wonder there was a need for grace in Jesus. 😉 😀

The mere fact that he describes homosexuality as a LIFESTYLE speaks volumes, doesn’t it?

I mean, it seems as if the lifestyle that he was leading as a homosexual clearly was destructive. But somehow this gets translated to homosexuality is the lifestyle. So homosexuality per se becomes the problem that needs to be fixed.

No-one ever looks at drunken louts on a Saturday night, vomiting on the footpath and thinks ‘that is the heterosexual lifestyle’. Although they might conclude it’s the Australian lifestyle. 🙄 But hey, even that’s just a case of using stereotyping and broad generalities.

The dialogue ends

From: Anthony Venn-Brown

To:

Sent: Thursday, 10 July, 2008 5:54:02 PM

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Hey David……can I ask a question?

From:

Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 08:52

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Of course Anthony.

From: Anthony Venn-Brown

To:

Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 3:40:10 PM

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Here is my question……you don’t have to answer of course.

Your life as a gay man must have been pretty terrible. Of course heterosexuals have terrible lives as well but don’t change their sexual orientation when they come to Christ…..just leave the relationships and previous lifestyles. I saw your comment in the article about never meeting a gay man who was content. This is so different from my experience and the experience of my friends. There are even some that have become Christians as gay men but don’t feel it necessary to change their sexual orientation.. Can you tell what was so bad that you felt you had to leave and become heterosexual.

Also you mentioned sexual abuse…..can you tell me more about that as well.

Anthony Venn-Brown

From:

Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2008 09:25

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Anthony, were you sexually, physically,, emotionally abused? I do not wish to read your book but am interested on this point. 99% of the homosexuals I knew when I was unregenerate were in some way horribly abused. I was never content with surface relationships. Anthony I am not interested in your justifications about how wonderful your life is now. I know from 15 years in that lifestyle that it is one gigantic lie and a dark closet which none of you have to live in. However, we all have choices. For me, it was the fear of spending eternity in seperation from God that I have cooperated and commited to Jesus in this narrow walk which I willl never come off. There is not a shred of biblical evidence to support your lifestyle. If you can show me appropriate scripture, I would love to hear from you. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I am afraid with what God has shown me that few are going to make it and I strive to preach and evangelise so that I may claim the eternal prize. Blessings, David.

From: Anthony Venn-Brown

To:

Sent: Tuesday, 15 July, 2008 12:59:47 PM

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Hi David……I’m happy to answer your questions. But I think I asked first.

EG.

1. Can you tell what was so bad that you felt you had to leave and become heterosexual?

2. Also you mentioned sexual abuse…..can you tell me more about that as well?

Anthony Venn-Brown

From:

Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2008 13:24

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Anthony, I have already addressed number 1 and will not be addressing number 2. Blessings, David.

From: Anthony Venn-Brown [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 02:17

To:

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Hi David…….I really don’t think you have addressed my first question. . I know from 15 years in that lifestyle that it is one gigantic lie and a dark closet which none of you have to live in. ……that is pretty vague. I’m asking because you were quoted in the Sun Herald article as saying that “I knew hundreds of homosexuals. Not one could I say was genuinely content.”. It must have been a pretty sad bunch of people you were hanging around with it seems. Having been a part of the gay community now since 1992, I know I’ve met some nasty bitchy queens but they are in the minority……well in the circles I mixed in anyway. Today……I hardly have any contact with people like that either in the homosexual world or the heterosexual world.

The gay crowd that I hang around with are all very content with their lives and sexual orientation.

I’m trying to get a clearer picture of your life as a gay man. Maybe you weren’t a very nice person yourself, had no integrity and attracted similar people into your life. I don’t really know. I could find the people you speak about both in gay and straight circles. But I choose not to mix in them. My life is too wonderful to spend it with people like that.

Its important for you to get your facts straight as well. 99% were sexually abused. Remember what the bible says about bearing false witness against others. In today’s terms that means lying about others. If you want to represent God to the gay community then it will be important for you to be honest with them. For years science believed that sexual abuse was a cause…..but of course research has not born that out. I did a quick ask around my friends for clarity……..none of them abused…..including me. The theory actually died many years ago.

Many pastors still believe that today though because the only gay men they ever have anything to do with are the tortured ones. …..and sexual abuse can also be a part of that is unresolved in them.

From my observation, most people who go through ex-gay programs have sexual addiction and or sexual abuse issues and they get those two mixed up with their sexual orientation. They are in fact very different things. My sexual addiction died when I came out.

There is not a shred of biblical evidence to support your lifestyle. If you can show me appropriate scripture, I would love to hear from you

I’m happy to answer the question but you would need to define what you mean by ‘lifestyle’.

My lifestyle is pretty simple. I get up in the morning, I spend most of my waking hours working on my business or helping others. I try to get to the gym. Usually Friday nights I go for dinner with some friends……and maybe a couple of drinks afterwards. I spend time with my family and lovely granddaughters who love their gay Poppy. I go to church at Hillsong…..and bible study even fortnight. I can’t really see where the bible condemns me for that ‘lifestyle’ as you call it.

I am afraid with what God has shown me that few are going to make it and I strive to preach and evangelise so that I may claim the eternal prize.

I was quite shocked by this statement David……I thought you were in a bible believing evangelical Christian. I’m not sure what Church you go to or what they are teaching you there…….but they really should be teaching you about Eph. 2:8,9

Anthony VB

From:

Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 08:51

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Thank you Anthony, I believe we are going around in circles. I stand by in Jesus name what the newspaper article stated. It is my experience and the truth. I stand by everything I have stated in my previous email. Please forgive me if I have offended you but the truth does tend to do that. Perhaps you should read David Pawson’s ‘The Road to Hell’. You may find this helpful before passing comment. Anthony, thank you it has been a joy communicating with you and I have learned so much. Anything that I have wanted to share with you has already been shared. I do hope that you come back to Jesus. The Day of Judgment shall reveal all. Please reread our previous communication as I am sure it will answer most of your questions. As my family and I power on for Jesus, I shall remember you in my prayers. Blessings for now, David.

From: Anthony Venn-Brown [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 12:39

To: ‘David

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

You are probably right David……we may have exhausted our dialogue for the time being.

It appears that your experience in the gay scene is entirely different to my experience in the gay community……hence we are in different places.

I think that sometimes you may have overlooked something in our discussions as you have mentioned a number of times that I needed to look at the scriptures. As you haven’t read my book as guess that you will not be aware that I was a devout student of the bible. Much more possibly than the average believer and had a study system in place whereby I read from Genesis to Revelation at least once a year. Add on to that my bible college training and the regular preparation for sermons, preparing study guides for the churches I pastured, seminars I wrote etc etc. You do speak to me at times as though I was ignorant of what the word says. I did become a Christian in 1969…..whereas you are a recent convert. My Christianity was always bible based and fundamental.

I don’t really need to come back to Jesus though David because I am already with him in a very profound way.

Please continue to remember me in your prayers as you say.

I have also enjoyed the dialogue. I’m sure we’ll see each other in heaven. You can say sorry to me then for judging me…..but I guess it won’t matter any more then. We’ll be too busy rejoicing.

I wish you Gods blessing on your life and marriage.

Anthony Venn-Brown

yep….the arguments are all quite old…..the stereotyping of homosexuals…..never mentioning lesbians of course ….who are as much relationship oriented as gay men are re sex. its a male/female thing not a homosexual/heterosexual thing.

The sexual abuse cause is also a common one….which is really understandable by those who speak from an experience of sexual abuse or have only spoken to gay and lesbian people who have experienced sexual abuse. Proper research does not bare this out however.

I do find it fascinating that he came out of the ‘scene’…fairly recently. thats one in a million……while we have 1000’s comiing out of the church or reconciling their faith and sexuality in the church…..Ben is an excellent example of that. As a young gay christian man i’m sure Ben will never know anything of the ‘lifestyle’ david was involved in and speaks of so judgmentally.

We do know that the separating of ones self, the denial, suppression, struggles etc……eventually pays a toll on ones mental health. So my guess is that for David…..he has only just begun this journey…..and along the path….there will be troubles…….or a miracle…..you know…..the one none of us ever got.

I think this is what will probably happen for many 😉

BEST POEM IN THE WORLD!

I was shocked, confused, bewildered

As I entered Heaven’s door,

Not by the beauty of it all,

Nor the lights or its decor.

But it was the folks in Heaven

Who made me sputter and gasp–

The thieves, the liars, the sinners,

The alcoholics and the trash.

There stood the kid from seventh grade

Who swiped my lunch money twice.

Next to him was my old neighbor

Who never said anything nice.

Herb, who I always thought

Was rotting away in hell,

Was sitting pretty on cloud nine,

Looking incredibly well.

I nudged Jesus, ‘What’s the deal?

I would love to hear Your take.

How’d all these sinners get up here?

God must’ve made a mistake.

‘And why’s everyone so quiet,

So somber – give me a clue.’

‘Hush, child,’ He said, ‘they’re all in shock.

No one thought they’d be seeing you.’

JUDGE NOT.

—

Remember…Just going to church doesn’t make you a Christian

no more than standing in your garage makes you a car