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a peek in my inbox...dialogue with an ex-gay

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magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
July 10, 2008, 08:16

I do think some scripture gets tossed around flamboyantly, without any real understanding of meaning or application and people get on some strange trains of thought, you do have to be so careful as a Pastor or preacher how you feed your congregation and such. No wonder there was a need for grace in Jesus. 😉 😀



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
July 10, 2008, 10:26

Latest UPdate


From:

Sent: Wednesday, 9 July 2008 14:00

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Thanks Anthony. I disagree, for me the gaylife is all a big lie, and for you fitting the heterosexual life whilst believing you are Gay was a lie. How different humans can be. The God that I serve doesnt make homosexuals and there is nothing in my bible which suggests this. It was God who called me out of this lifestyle. For me the fear of God and spending eternity in hell got me quicksmart out of homosexuality. You are attempting to validate a lifestyle that is anything but biblical. From my position of healing your denial of the truth is not a very good place to be. Where is your faith in the saving power of Jesus. I believe some are successful in reorientation and some are not. Only God has all the answers. Blessings for now, David.


From: Anthony Venn-Brown [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2008 10:15

To:

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Hi David


You know…..it is quite strange reading the things you say as I once believed them myself. I turned away from my homosexuality at a much younger age than you did, 18 actually. It was the unhappiness about being homosexual that drove me to God. I was married for 16 years…..and very happily married. My wife was a wonderful woman and I loved my children very much. Its 39 years now as a Christian.


A deeper look at the original language of the bible, the historical and cultural setting of Leviticus, Romans and Corinthians, the advances in science since I was 18 (at that time all mental health professionals believed homosexuality was a pathology) and the deep peace I have today tells me that I was wrong. You are just beginning your journey with Jesus……..from an obviously previously tormented life as a gay man. Some have that kind of life but not all. Mine is not tormented, immoral or hinders me in anyway from serving God with all my heart.


One of the reasons it took so long for me to sort it all out was that to no longer deny who I really was would mean I would loose everything. In the end it was more a reluctant acceptance than embracing my gayness. I think this final paragraph of my book says it best.


It’s your journey and it is not my place to tell you how you should live your life. For many years I did that as a preacher. If we are honest with ourselves, deep down in our hearts, we all know the right thing to do. All we need is the courage and integrity to do it. My journey from rejection of self to embracing of self was twenty-eight years long—more than half my life. Had I known the amazing sense of freedom, the peace through reconciliation, the liberation of bringing my secrets into the light, the power of living authentically, I would have smashed down the prison walls much earlier. My journey now, it seems, is to bridge the gap between my two worlds and the people I love and help them see the good in each other.


Anthony VB



orfeo
 
Joined in 2007
July 10, 2008, 13:10

The mere fact that he describes homosexuality as a LIFESTYLE speaks volumes, doesn’t it?


I mean, it seems as if the lifestyle that he was leading as a homosexual clearly was destructive. But somehow this gets translated to homosexuality is the lifestyle. So homosexuality per se becomes the problem that needs to be fixed.


No-one ever looks at drunken louts on a Saturday night, vomiting on the footpath and thinks ‘that is the heterosexual lifestyle’. Although they might conclude it’s the Australian lifestyle. 🙄 But hey, even that’s just a case of using stereotyping and broad generalities.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
July 10, 2008, 17:23

I think I should delve deeper into his life as a ‘practising homosexual’ man. I’m sure it will be ugly.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
July 16, 2008, 13:20

The dialogue ends


From: Anthony Venn-Brown

To:

Sent: Thursday, 10 July, 2008 5:54:02 PM

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Hey David……can I ask a question?


From:

Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2008 08:52

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Of course Anthony.


From: Anthony Venn-Brown

To:

Sent: Monday, 14 July, 2008 3:40:10 PM

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Here is my question……you don’t have to answer of course.


Your life as a gay man must have been pretty terrible. Of course heterosexuals have terrible lives as well but don’t change their sexual orientation when they come to Christ…..just leave the relationships and previous lifestyles. I saw your comment in the article about never meeting a gay man who was content. This is so different from my experience and the experience of my friends. There are even some that have become Christians as gay men but don’t feel it necessary to change their sexual orientation.. Can you tell what was so bad that you felt you had to leave and become heterosexual.


Also you mentioned sexual abuse…..can you tell me more about that as well.


Anthony Venn-Brown


From:

Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2008 09:25

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Anthony, were you sexually, physically,, emotionally abused? I do not wish to read your book but am interested on this point. 99% of the homosexuals I knew when I was unregenerate were in some way horribly abused. I was never content with surface relationships. Anthony I am not interested in your justifications about how wonderful your life is now. I know from 15 years in that lifestyle that it is one gigantic lie and a dark closet which none of you have to live in. However, we all have choices. For me, it was the fear of spending eternity in seperation from God that I have cooperated and commited to Jesus in this narrow walk which I willl never come off. There is not a shred of biblical evidence to support your lifestyle. If you can show me appropriate scripture, I would love to hear from you. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I am afraid with what God has shown me that few are going to make it and I strive to preach and evangelise so that I may claim the eternal prize. Blessings, David.


From: Anthony Venn-Brown

To:

Sent: Tuesday, 15 July, 2008 12:59:47 PM

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY

Hi David……I’m happy to answer your questions. But I think I asked first.


EG.


1. Can you tell what was so bad that you felt you had to leave and become heterosexual?


2. Also you mentioned sexual abuse…..can you tell me more about that as well?


Anthony Venn-Brown


From:

Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2008 13:24

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Anthony, I have already addressed number 1 and will not be addressing number 2. Blessings, David.


From: Anthony Venn-Brown [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 02:17

To:

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Hi David…….I really don’t think you have addressed my first question. . I know from 15 years in that lifestyle that it is one gigantic lie and a dark closet which none of you have to live in. ……that is pretty vague. I’m asking because you were quoted in the Sun Herald article as saying that “I knew hundreds of homosexuals. Not one could I say was genuinely content.”. It must have been a pretty sad bunch of people you were hanging around with it seems. Having been a part of the gay community now since 1992, I know I’ve met some nasty bitchy queens but they are in the minority……well in the circles I mixed in anyway. Today……I hardly have any contact with people like that either in the homosexual world or the heterosexual world.


The gay crowd that I hang around with are all very content with their lives and sexual orientation.


I’m trying to get a clearer picture of your life as a gay man. Maybe you weren’t a very nice person yourself, had no integrity and attracted similar people into your life. I don’t really know. I could find the people you speak about both in gay and straight circles. But I choose not to mix in them. My life is too wonderful to spend it with people like that.


Its important for you to get your facts straight as well. 99% were sexually abused. Remember what the bible says about bearing false witness against others. In today’s terms that means lying about others. If you want to represent God to the gay community then it will be important for you to be honest with them. For years science believed that sexual abuse was a cause…..but of course research has not born that out. I did a quick ask around my friends for clarity……..none of them abused…..including me. The theory actually died many years ago.


Many pastors still believe that today though because the only gay men they ever have anything to do with are the tortured ones. …..and sexual abuse can also be a part of that is unresolved in them.


From my observation, most people who go through ex-gay programs have sexual addiction and or sexual abuse issues and they get those two mixed up with their sexual orientation. They are in fact very different things. My sexual addiction died when I came out.


There is not a shred of biblical evidence to support your lifestyle. If you can show me appropriate scripture, I would love to hear from you


I’m happy to answer the question but you would need to define what you mean by ‘lifestyle’.


My lifestyle is pretty simple. I get up in the morning, I spend most of my waking hours working on my business or helping others. I try to get to the gym. Usually Friday nights I go for dinner with some friends……and maybe a couple of drinks afterwards. I spend time with my family and lovely granddaughters who love their gay Poppy. I go to church at Hillsong…..and bible study even fortnight. I can’t really see where the bible condemns me for that ‘lifestyle’ as you call it.


I am afraid with what God has shown me that few are going to make it and I strive to preach and evangelise so that I may claim the eternal prize.


I was quite shocked by this statement David……I thought you were in a bible believing evangelical Christian. I’m not sure what Church you go to or what they are teaching you there…….but they really should be teaching you about Eph. 2:8,9


Anthony VB


From:

Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 08:51

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


Thank you Anthony, I believe we are going around in circles. I stand by in Jesus name what the newspaper article stated. It is my experience and the truth. I stand by everything I have stated in my previous email. Please forgive me if I have offended you but the truth does tend to do that. Perhaps you should read David Pawson’s ‘The Road to Hell’. You may find this helpful before passing comment. Anthony, thank you it has been a joy communicating with you and I have learned so much. Anything that I have wanted to share with you has already been shared. I do hope that you come back to Jesus. The Day of Judgment shall reveal all. Please reread our previous communication as I am sure it will answer most of your questions. As my family and I power on for Jesus, I shall remember you in my prayers. Blessings for now, David.


From: Anthony Venn-Brown [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 12:39

To: ‘David

Subject: RE: CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY


You are probably right David……we may have exhausted our dialogue for the time being.


It appears that your experience in the gay scene is entirely different to my experience in the gay community……hence we are in different places.


I think that sometimes you may have overlooked something in our discussions as you have mentioned a number of times that I needed to look at the scriptures. As you haven’t read my book as guess that you will not be aware that I was a devout student of the bible. Much more possibly than the average believer and had a study system in place whereby I read from Genesis to Revelation at least once a year. Add on to that my bible college training and the regular preparation for sermons, preparing study guides for the churches I pastured, seminars I wrote etc etc. You do speak to me at times as though I was ignorant of what the word says. I did become a Christian in 1969…..whereas you are a recent convert. My Christianity was always bible based and fundamental.


I don’t really need to come back to Jesus though David because I am already with him in a very profound way.


Please continue to remember me in your prayers as you say.


I have also enjoyed the dialogue. I’m sure we’ll see each other in heaven. You can say sorry to me then for judging me…..but I guess it won’t matter any more then. We’ll be too busy rejoicing.


I wish you Gods blessing on your life and marriage.


Anthony Venn-Brown



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
July 16, 2008, 14:34

Whoa!!!!!! What can one say, thankyou for sharing this Anthony and it sounds all too familiar, the arrogance of self-righteousness, oh well, if thats where he chooses to be then so be it. What can you say when someone refuses to see that not “everyone” has been sexually abused as kids 🙄 and that being the reason they are gay etc..


Its such an easy cop out and way out for people to call us “lost” “without any truth” and “deceived” even the non-christians call christians that 🙄 It seems when people are challenged or cant find an answer to give you, that is the first thing they will reply with or that “the devils got you” 🙄 and im sure the list goes on.


Jesus is my Lord and im saved by grace 😀 like anyone else and I dont have all the answers, same as everyone else, hence the need for grace in the first place, it isnt rocket science.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
July 16, 2008, 15:28

yep….the arguments are all quite old…..the stereotyping of homosexuals…..never mentioning lesbians of course ….who are as much relationship oriented as gay men are re sex. its a male/female thing not a homosexual/heterosexual thing.


The sexual abuse cause is also a common one….which is really understandable by those who speak from an experience of sexual abuse or have only spoken to gay and lesbian people who have experienced sexual abuse. Proper research does not bare this out however.


I do find it fascinating that he came out of the ‘scene’…fairly recently. thats one in a million……while we have 1000’s comiing out of the church or reconciling their faith and sexuality in the church…..Ben is an excellent example of that. As a young gay christian man i’m sure Ben will never know anything of the ‘lifestyle’ david was involved in and speaks of so judgmentally.


We do know that the separating of ones self, the denial, suppression, struggles etc……eventually pays a toll on ones mental health. So my guess is that for David…..he has only just begun this journey…..and along the path….there will be troubles…….or a miracle…..you know…..the one none of us ever got.



orfeo
 
Joined in 2007
July 16, 2008, 16:29

Disappointed I was never included in your ad hoc survey, Anthony 😉 but for the record, no-one ever came close to abusing me as a child.


The truly wobbly thing about that argument is the number of children IN GENERAL who are abused. If some of the reports in the media are even remotely accurate, then the percentage of children who suffer abuse is much higher than the percentage of homosexuals (one TV ad recently claimed it was something like 1 in 4 girls who were abused at some point).


Like many other things, identifying a problem in the homosexual community is really not answering the right question. The right question is: is that problem any DIFFERENT to the equivalent one found in the heterosexual community?



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
July 17, 2008, 11:06

I think this is what will probably happen for many 😉


BEST POEM IN THE WORLD!


I was shocked, confused, bewildered

As I entered Heaven’s door,

Not by the beauty of it all,

Nor the lights or its decor.


But it was the folks in Heaven

Who made me sputter and gasp–

The thieves, the liars, the sinners,

The alcoholics and the trash.


There stood the kid from seventh grade

Who swiped my lunch money twice.

Next to him was my old neighbor

Who never said anything nice.


Herb, who I always thought

Was rotting away in hell,

Was sitting pretty on cloud nine,

Looking incredibly well.


I nudged Jesus, ‘What’s the deal?

I would love to hear Your take.

How’d all these sinners get up here?

God must’ve made a mistake.


‘And why’s everyone so quiet,

So somber – give me a clue.’

‘Hush, child,’ He said, ‘they’re all in shock.

No one thought they’d be seeing you.’


JUDGE NOT.



Remember…Just going to church doesn’t make you a Christian

no more than standing in your garage makes you a car



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
July 17, 2008, 14:44

this thread began to get into an important discussion on sexual abuse and at Bens suggestion has been moved to another thread. Feel free to continue the ex-gay discussion here though.


Recent news just in


http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=glbt&sc2=news&sc3=&id=77540


Alan Chambers is the president of Exodus International. Chambers says that he, too, was once gay, and explains, “There is right to choose one’s passage in life.”


Adds Chambers, “I didn’t choose those feelings, but when I was old enough, I did choose my [mode of sexual] behavior.”


Jaye Thomas says that he endured years of sexual abuse; Chambers claims that more than three-quarters of those attending conferences put on by Exodus were similarly abused, which might raise questions about whether attendees are looking to become heterosexual, or rather seeking some form of solace and safety in the wake of their abusive experiences.



Either way, Exodus International seeks to serve victims of molestation with workshops, the Citizen-Times reported.


But it’s the claim that gays looking to “convert” to straights can pray their way to heterosexuality that concerns, even alarms, mental health professionals.


Exodus, however, claims that the notion that they offer some form of so-called “reparative therapy” is incorrect, the Citizen-Times reported.


Randy Thomas, executive vice president for Exodus International, was quoted in the Citizen-Times as saying, “We have 30 Exodus-affiliated counselors across the country, and even though reparative therapy informs them, so do many other forms of therapy.”


Added Randy Thomas, “We get lumped into the groups that do reparative therapy, when it’s just not true.”


Another myth is that Exodus claims that God sends gay people to Hell simply for their sexuality. Chambers refuted that, saying, “The truth is that homosexuality does not send people to hell. Gay people live in heaven.”


Added Chambers, “It’s not about fire and brimstone, it’s about an alternative option.”


AVB: so there you have it ladies and gentlemen……..from the words of the leader of Exodus. you can be christian and gay..


this is another statement that shows the shift is happening. Alan previously stated that there was no such thing as an ex-gay. as mentioned on my blog July last year [url=http://alifeofunlearning.blogspot.com/2007/07/around-world-in-18-days.html]http://alifeofunlearning.blogspot.com/2007/07/around-world-in-18-days.html


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