Another Sodom?

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Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
November 14, 2007, 11:26

Anthony, thanks for your input. I was about ready to bail out of this and not write any more. Those who think sharing is not painful at times have not done much of it. I want to continue to grow and learn on this journey and hopefully not forget that I really know very little and will never quite understand someone else until I have walked in their shoes.

Thanks Freedom,


its not a problem here when someone says something that is not intentional to cause problems or have a go at some one……we can all work that out together. Its when someone actually intentionally attacks someone in our forum we have a problem………they are asked to change or move out…..this is a safe space….respectful….honest…..sensitive etc.

it was obviuous that you had the right intentions……and now you have some additional sensitivity…..I see it as all good.

Joined in 2007
November 14, 2007, 13:26

For the record, I don’t feel like I was attacked or whatever, people say stuff like that all the time and my first thought is “thank God that has not been apart of their experience!” It’s all good, I wasn’t offended. Just Chill 😆

Sparrow, thankyou. Your description of me may be a little idealistic, but it is certainly something I aim for.

Joined in 2007
November 18, 2007, 17:02

I too am moved by the amazing openness in this forum that challenges us all and convicts our hearts to be more in tune with each other and more compassionate. So many have suffered and yet are able to say they are learning to walk forward. I am so inspired.

It’s evident that we all are capable of the worst horrors. It’s a broken world and I wish there were a way to reach the hurting, and mentally ill people that commit such crimes that rob people and cause so much pain.

Just recently it was found that a man who was having an affair with a married man in Newcastle became so jealous that he murdered him and tried to distroy the body in acid. But then, one of my close friend Hilary was murdered 8 years ago by a man she was dating, for what ever motive.

I believe in reading those two accounts that God has a desire to see us live fulfilled lives and he is so broken hearted by our choices to persue carnal desires. We all know that as gratifying sex is, it is not something that it can’t solve problems or overcome differences.

God did have a sacred space for sexuality in our lives, and I don’t believe the object of those two stories was the sexuality of the men, not even the promiscurity, but the insanity and intoxicated manner in which they saught after gratification. They had de-humenised the act to the point where it ceased to be intimate and beautiful.

These Biblical stories do not stand alone for me as a judgement against Homosexuality because I don’t beleive they are about homosexuality but about the kind of animalistic behaviour that ruins our world.

(Sorry to all the animals that I just offended by saying that. We have 3 dogs and 2 cats and i hope they don’t act like that towards their fellow species)

Dove Snuggler
Joined in 2007
November 27, 2007, 22:22

I am quite resigned to believe that many heterosexual men perform sexual crimes against other men as well as women … men who have never resolved their own sexuality, some who live in a sexual relationship with a woman. It is wrong to assume that only gay men commit sex crimes against men. Refer to the various databases on sexual abuse crimes: and

There are also the ongoing tragedies of criminal rape/death of gay men in Australia.

On this topic I also think it’s important to get a perspective on Sodom. As I said in another post, “the men who bothered Lot only said they wanted to ‘know’ his visitors. The word ‘know’ appears 943 times in the Old Testament and it only means sex 10 times … It’s plausible that the men of Sodom were angry when they found out Lot had some secret visitors. Even Jesus Christ’s only references to Sodom are about a lack of hospitality and unbelief. He mentions nothing of Sodom’s supposed homosexuality.” The same can be said of Gibeah (your reference from Judges 19).

How on earth did Sodom give its name to sodomy?


Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
November 27, 2007, 23:27

I’m glad you mentioned about the word to ‘know’ Kit…….I keep forgetting that not everyone knows this stuff.

for those who want to find more you’ll find links in the resources section on all the 6 passages that will educate you about the language, history and culture of the time and what those verses really meant.

I believe that Josephus was the first to use the term Sodomites around the end of the first century. But he was basically speaking about people from a geographical area like Sydneyites.

As the Jewish writers from that time began to make the Sodom story more of sexual one than it was intended the term began to be associated with certain sexual acts.

here is this from wikipedia.

The term includes all sexual acts other than coital sex between a male and female.[2] Although not gender specific by definition, in common use sodomy generally refers to homosexual intercourse between males.

In its widest definition “sodomy” refers to anal penetration, oral sex, masturbation and paraphilia. The term is also sometimes used to describe human-animal sexual intercourse (also known as bestiality or zoophilia);[2] this is the primary meaning of the cognate German language word Sodomie.

In current usage, the term is particularly used in law.[3] Sodomy laws forbidding certain types of sex acts have been instituted in many cultures. In the various criminal codes of United States of America, the term “sodomy” has generally been replaced by “Deviant sexual intercourse”, which is precisely defined by statute.[4] These laws have been under challenge and have in places been found unconstitutional or have been replaced with different acts.[5] Some countries, particularly in Africa, the Middle East and southern Asia retain “sodomy laws” against homosexual acts. Elsewhere the legal use of the term “sodomy” is restricted to rape cases where an act such as anal penetration has taken place.[6] The English term buggery is very closely related to sodomy in concept, and often interchangeably used in law and popular speech.[7][8]

Joined in 2006
November 27, 2007, 23:54

Dove snuggler, I just found that site that you have listed, when I left your post I went for a search, so glad that you put the clergyabuse site up, great resource to direct people to.

Also, I think that particular site can provide more in regards to support and resource for victims, since there will be more of like experience on there who need so much of what it has to offer, since it was designed for that specific reason, just like F2B has been designed for those coming out in their orientation and also having a religious/non religious or belief based background and big support for each other in that.

I know that sometimes one site can be a vehicle for people to be directed to other sites that can meet a specific need, just like the married and gay mens site for eg. I guess thats the beauty of the internet. We can come out of hiding in certain places and yet maintain an anonimity if we desire and one site can help us find other sites as needed.

Dove Snuggler
Joined in 2007
November 29, 2007, 00:04

Hi Magsdee

I’m pleased this is helpful. It’s very educating…!

Anthony, you’re resources are also very enlightening. Thank you. Kit

Joined in 2007
November 29, 2007, 13:24

As has been said, rape is about power.

The more I think about it and realise that, the more laughable it seems to me that people think the gender of the victim (or intended victim) is actually important to the story of Sodom.

Would Lot really have bothered offering up his daughters to a crowd of rampaging homosexuals? I think not.

Joined in 2007
November 29, 2007, 18:20

No more comment.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
November 29, 2007, 23:57

the whole sodom and gomorrah story is full of holes and inconsistencies. .

eg……a so called righteoius man offering his virgin daughters for rape…….come on.

anyone who believes the story is about homosexuality has probably never read any more than and english translation

Best we leave it alone maybe and not give it anymore credibility.

if you want to read more about it you’ll find it in our resources section.

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