Claims that Gay People Abuse Children

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Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
August 19, 2013, 07:48

Hi Truth vs Lies

This is what Bernie heard from the pulpit:

Similarly, he said, people are beginning to accept that children can be raised by gay and lesbian couples. Then he referred to the gay couple in Brisbane who were recently charged with abusing their son. He said they were the poster children of the gay movement, even featured on the ABC, but now they’ve each been sentenced to 40 years in prison, and that’s what happens when people depart from God’s view of marriage.

This is not about a difference in opinion. This is a pastor making a gross generalisation from one case, saying that gay people abuse their children because of the case in Brisbane. It is highly inaccurate and also defamatory to make such a claim. It is like saying that because one heterosexual man committed a rape and murder that all heterosexual men will do the same. And that is unfair and simply not true.

As for God's view of marriage, if I look to biblical examples, polygamy was acceptable in Old testament times but we don't find this acceptable these days in our culture. So has God's view on marriage changed? I don't think so although our customs are ever changing with the culture and times that we are in. This is true in biblical times too, as we see with the law changing to ensure that widows and orphans were cared for and not abandoned by the community as they were previously.

If you go by fruits of the spirit as the measure of success, and love is the outcome of a marriage, whether same sex or otherwise, I would say that is a good marriage. In the same way we can also measure our own actions and what we say. Do our responses convey love? Did the pastor's response convey love or was he really just wanting to get his agenda across?

We all have our own biases and ideas we are attached to but if these are more important than showing real love to others, then that is ungodly. And we need to each judge ourselves on this and not be judging others.


Ann Maree

Mother Hen
Joined in 2011
August 19, 2013, 10:09

In regards to hearing stuff we don't like in church and if we are offended maybe God is telling us something. Maybe in some cases that is true, but we should not sit there and blindly agree or follow any pastor, church etc. God gave us the Holy Spirit to help/guide us. Jesus said when he left his disciples he will send another, the other was the Holy Spirit. Have you thought, Truth V Lies, that it is the Holy Spirit that kicks in and makes us feel uncomfortable, enraged, offended? Letting us know that what is happening is not right.

As you mentioned the Pastor was using an example to make "HIS" point. I have sat and listened so many times when pastors have taken a scripture on it's own out of context, out of the time and place, culture etc and then used it to make "HIS"point. Who says his point is what that scripture is actually saying.

God gave us feelings, he gave us the Holy Spirit, he gave us righteous anger. I think Bernie showed incredible self control to walk out and not say something and maybe that was the Holy Spirit guiding him to do that. In his place I don't think I would have been able to do the same. What would have risen up in me would have been a different manifestation of the Holy Spirit speaking out that what the Pastor was saying was wrong. Either way, we should not sit their and blindly follow a Pastor up the front because we think he is the man of God, he knows more than all of us. There has been many examples of Pastors who have fallen. If all we had to do was sit there and do what some Pastor up the front said was right then Jesus would have said he will send some men to replace him. But he didn't he sent us the Holy Spirit to be our witness, our conscious, our guide, our teacher. The law is now written in our hearts. Thank God he did sent the Holy Spirit and we don't have to rely on the interpretations or misinterpretations of man.

God Bless

Joined in 2011
August 19, 2013, 17:59

Truth V Lies,

You said:

If God is speaking and it offends, perhaps church is not for you.

Why do you assume that God is speaking through the pastor? I believe we need to weigh every word that a pastor says against our experience of God, knowledge of Scripture and voice of the Holy Spirit. In this case I would be very wary about concluding that God was speaking through the pastor as he was preaching fear and hatred, not love.

Truth V Lies, you also said:

When we are offended when someone says something we don't like, it indicates that we have some emotional need to be sorted out as a secure person doesn't get offended.

I don't agree. Sometimes we are offended because the other person has said something offensive, wrong, hateful, ungodly. Why do you assume some fault in the listener if they are offended? The fault may lie in the speaker.

In this case, maybe the listener is more attune with God than the pastor and maybe the listener can speak God's word to the pastor, not vice versa.

Joined in 2012
August 22, 2013, 22:33

I was offended because he was saying that GLBTI people, of which I am one, are not safe to be entrusted with children. He was effectively calling me a child abuser. Frankly, I'd be concerned by anyone who was not offended by that.

I walked out because what he said was factually wrong and unjust. God is neither of those things and I needed to 'voice' my opposition to his message, in some way. Perhaps if I'd been more confident, I'd have stayed and then spoken to him afterwards, but I didn't analyse and plan it, I just reacted and it still feels like I did the right thing.

Incidentally, I haven't been back there or made contact with him yet. I'm working up to it for this weekend. I don't want to write him off prematurely because this is a small town and who knows how long it will be before he meets another person who's in a position to talk to him about this. If he doesn't listen, then I'll move on but I think I need to try, if not for my sake then for all the other GLBTI people he comes across in the future.

Bernie (who's a 'she' *grin*)

Mother Hen
Joined in 2011
August 23, 2013, 07:19

Well said Bernie 🙂 All the best when and if you do speak to the Pastor.

Chapter Leader
Joined in 2008
August 24, 2013, 20:56

Bernie – G'day! I feel your pain, and the challenge re what to do.

Generally, when I hear a preacher say something negative like that, my immediate and deliberate action is to:

(1) remind myself that s/he is most likely speaking from ignorance – i.e., is just repeating what s/he was originally taught and that s/he has never made the effort, or had the time, to study the issue objectively. (Most pastors are fairly busy people and a 'gay' issue is a very small one in all they handle.)

(2) silently pray that prayer of Jesus on the Cross: "Father forgive them (him/her) for they know not what they do".

Doing those two things immediately diffuses any anger I may feel and enables me to react objectively.

For me, a gentle bit-by-bit challenge of entrenched views works better than a full-on assault/argument. I'd be emailing my pastor and saying something like: "I appreciate the huge challenge you have in presenting your interpretation of God's word to us. But, I am concerned that (perhaps in the emotion of the moment) you have taken one objectionable action by a gay parent and extrapolated that to apply to all same-sex parents and their relationships – without any supporting data. Surely, such logic would suggest that a report of an abusive heterosexual parent should be extrapolated as judgement against all heterosexual parents; or one example of a husband responsible for domestic violence be extrapolated as condemnation of all husbands in marriages. To use unsubstantiated and emotional statements such as that does yourself a discredit and could well be harmful to individuals in the congregation."

Trust you find the wisdom and courage to respond appropriately. God bless ~ david

Joined in 2011
August 25, 2013, 21:01

hmm – I just had to jump in here again – I see nothing in what Bernie has written to indicate that what she wants out of church is a "nice warm fuzzy experience to satisfy [her] needs".

On the other hand I think that it's somewhat reasonable to expect that church might be a place where everyone feels welcomed, safe and respected.

I certainly don't buy the argument that if people are feeling uncomfortable, judged, challenged – that it suggests that there's 'something to be learnt' – sometimes, as Mother Hen and others have suggested it may just mean that the preacher/minister is being judgemental, inappropriate and provocative. By all means – we should expect to be challenged from time to time at church -challenged to love generously, challenged to forgive, challenged to practice radical hospitality. I think if people in churches spent more time thinking about how they might include people – and what it might be like to take the judgemental accusatory hat off for a while and instead put on clothes of compassion – then perhaps Bernie and others in her shoes might actually stick around.

Bernie – I would've walked out too 🙂

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


Joined in 2005
September 12, 2013, 08:01


Something similar happened at my father's church.

My father – who was in his 90's at the time – was deeply offended by the ministers attack on LGBTI people

To be honest – it was a few years back and I forget precisely what the minister actually said

However – my father wrote letters to the local newspapser and the minister directly denouncing the attacks.

After a while however – when it became clear the attitude was not going to change – he moved churches.

He also lives in the country – and so there are a limited number of choices – and he ended up finding a small group – that meet in the CWA hall and went there.

He would not join that church – because he didnt believe all their doctrine – and joining entailed making commitments he wasnt willing to make – but he was welcome (and In fact – I have gone there with him) and whilst there are some there that are not a fan of lgbti people (or their rights) – they were still friendly and welcoming and most in the church were supportive in their views.

the point is that maybe there isnt such a group there where you live – country towns really vary in size and culture – but my dad had to look a little deeper to find a church he was comfotable with – and it wasnt one he expected to attend.

Oh and he had to go to the bigger town – that was a little bit further away (there are actually no churches in the town he lives) – but the problem was with the church in the closest town (with churches) and he ended up going to one – a little bigger and a further drive.

at any rate – whilst you need to to follow your heart in this matter – that I personally wouldnt stay in such a church.[In my opinion] Churches should be supportive communities and more than somewhere you go on a sunday and with a minister preaching such messages I think that will show in the nature of their "community".

Joined in 2012
September 17, 2013, 22:42

wow so much great advice. Thanks everyone! 🙂

I sent him an email a few weeks back and he replied saying he'd prefer to speak in person and asking when I was available. Then I didn't hear from him again until today. Now he's asked if I'll go to his house tomorrow night and talk with him and his wife. Feeling a bit anxious about it because I'll be outnumbered and it's in his space…… but I'll wear my professional shell (I'm a refugee lawyer in work-life) and go into it as I would for a client, rather than myself. Nothing to lose.

Mother Hen
Joined in 2011
September 18, 2013, 08:06

Good luck Bernie, will be thinking of you, will say a few prayers that things go well.

Keep us informed on how it goes.

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