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Discipleship

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mrg
 
Joined in 2010
April 12, 2010, 23:38

Good thoughts Ann Maree!


I said we need to have people around, not pastors!! Who’d want those weird types?!!


But seriously, I think the presence of us pastors sometimes gives others an excuse for not fulfilling their part of God’s call. “The pastor gets paid to do it, so I don’t have to” is an attitude that comes through time and again. It needs to be all of us, walking and learning together. And if it’s done with integrity and honesty, it’s always a two way thing – everyone benefits.


John the Baptist is a great character. I would have loved to have met him in the flesh. I reckon he would have been an intense and crazy type, but with eyes that could bore right into your soul. You’d know that he spoke truth.


Anyway, we don’t know a whole lot about his history, but it is thought he grew up in the Essene community. A devout section of the Jewish people that are thought to be responsible for the Dead Sea Scrolls. Community was an important part of their life, and even though he obviously spent time on retreat in the desert John went on to gather his own band of disciples. I reckon he would have had his own smaller group of trusted friends in the same way Jesus did.


I’m starting to preach again. Sorry about that! But hope this helps a little…



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
April 13, 2010, 01:28

i think my favourite quote might be relevant here


its called


THE GIFT OF ALIENATION


‘People who exist at the margins of society are very much like Alice in Wonderland. They are not required to make the tough decision to risk their lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery. They have already been thrust beyond the city’s walls that keep ordinary people at a safe distance from the unknown. For at least some outsiders, “alienation” has destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the mythic hero’s path to the possibility of discovery. What outsiders discover in their adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the courage to repudiate self-contempt and recognise their “alienation” as a precious gift of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did not sanction. At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the victim is no longer a victim.’



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
April 13, 2010, 10:04

who wrote that AVB?



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
April 13, 2010, 13:05

Its by Jamake Highwater from his book ‘The Mythology of Transgression – Homosexuality as a Metaphor’


I love this quote..…I originally read in Christian De La Heurta’s book “Coming Out Spiritually – the next step”……it was like the most perfect, succinct and powerful description of my lifes journey I’d ever read. It was like a revelation. Then I tracked down and actual copy of Jamake Highwater’s book….‘The Mythology of Transgression – Homosexuality as a Metaphor’ ..which was good…..but the quote was the gem of the whole work.


Jamake High Water was



  1. A North American Indian

  2. Adopted

  3. Gay


as he mentions in the intro that was three strikes against him…….he knew quite profoundly what it was like to be an outsider……and that if we follow the journey to its ultimate conclusion and resolution…….we get to experience a liberation only a few on this planet get to enjoy.


For those who are not sure what the mythic hero’s path is there is a good description of it in Caroline Myss’s book Sacred Contracts


The archetypal Hero’s Journey described by Joseph Campbell “The Hero with a Thousand Faces’, Sir James Fazer’s ‘the Golden Bough’ and others always begins with a process of separation or alienation from the tribe, followed by a series of difficult challenges that the hero must meet alone. The journey culminates in a descent into the abyss of self-doubt and a loss of faith in the Divine, but then results in a vital transformation and a renewal of trust, which in turn leads to a revelation of some new knowledge, insight or wisdom. The hero then returns to the tribe and imparts this insight- or tires to, since hero’s like prophets are not always welcome in their hometown. Their presence unsettles us and makes us aware that other truths and lives exist beyond our physical routines.



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
April 13, 2010, 14:27

avb, I’m a big fan of Caroline Myss. The Judge Judy of intuitives. 🙂



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
April 13, 2010, 16:39

Thanks!



mrg
 
Joined in 2010
April 13, 2010, 21:33

Interesting quote AVB.


I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing though.


Yes, on the margins, we discover a new side of ourselves that perhaps we’ve hidden or run from. In the loneliness and isolation we’re forced to face the reality of who we are. Some accept it and some don’t.


In that sense, alienation can be a gift in which we discover things we wouldn’t otherwise.


But I don’t think anybody is meant to exist there long term. In tribal rites of passage, children were sent out of the village to a remote place, tested, and then returned as adults, discovering new found strengths and freedoms. But they were never left in the wilderness. I don’t think anybody is meant to be.


Despite the pain, the frustration, and the arguments, I still think we’re wired to grow and live in community. ‘Love God and love others’ was described as the most important teachings – and we can only do them effectively in community.


Thoughts?



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
April 13, 2010, 22:33

yep….thank God for most of us it only a season in our lives. But we find treasures in our darkness we can’t find in the light.


I think that many of us who have come from church backgrounds have an inbuilt sense of community. Some people try and find that in the gay ‘scene’……only to find it quite unsatisfying even soul destroying. then some of us find the gay community and that meets many of our needs. Many of us need that sense of connection with people we feel safe with, can relate to and be ourselves with. Hence the gay ghettos that exist in many cities.



iplantolive
 
Joined in 2008
April 13, 2010, 22:39

I think anyone who attempts a “solo flight” in this world without some discipleship and/or mentoring in their life is probably missing out on heaps of growth opportunities! I know I’ve tried to do it, and it’s a very lonely journey. In terms of personal and spiritual growth, I think it needs to be a two-way street. There has to be benefits to both mentor and mentee. Very much like cultivating a friendship based on mutual respect for the other persons gifts and talents. Being able to share in both the good and bad times. I know this particularly now in my current circumstances! Whoever said that life was never meant to be a bed of roses was absolutely spot-on.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
April 15, 2010, 14:42

avb, I’m a big fan of Caroline Myss. The Judge Judy of intuitives. 🙂


Can’t stand Judge Judy…….hehe. I like Caroline Myss…..but actually couldn’t finish the book……too complex for me. That quote though came at a time I needed that insight……it wasn’t too many pages on I stopped reading.


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