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Do conservative Christians care what the Bible really says?

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magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
December 1, 2007, 13:14

Thankyou for the food for thought Magz, awesome D great how we can share and remind each other of things, since there is swo muchhhhhhhhh shock wink Love the revies recently about the Jewish stuff and gentile stuff and things that apply across the board, forgot about the one you just mentioned above, its a beauty.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
December 1, 2007, 13:45

We often miss the simplicity don’t we……..I think it is often the cruz of the controversies that exist in evangelical Christianity today.


I’m like you mazdragon and these are the words that I try to live by.



“Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength, and love your neighbour as yourself.” Jesus said that these two were the greatest commandments, and that in them was contained all of the law and the prophets, so if you’re applying these then you’re keeping the law.


The first recommendation I apply to my life is found in Micah 6:8


“He has shown you Oh man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you. Do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your God.”


I’d like to add these as well.


Matthew 23:23: “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens,[a] but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith.


1 Cor 13 12We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us! 13But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.


give me the simple life.



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
December 1, 2007, 17:49

yep, ditto on that. D



orfeo
 
Joined in 2007
December 4, 2007, 13:06

I actually think the major source of my anger is that no-one ever told me there was a different way of thinking, for so many years. It was actually some of the material that Freedom 2b links to that demonstrated to me for the first time it was possible to take the Bible seriously and simultaneously take issue with the interpretation of it regarding homosexuality.


Having just come out this year, I feel like I want to turn around to the church and say, “Why didn’t you tell me? Why wasn’t I given the chance to hear a different opinion? Did I really have to suffer for 17 years, or could we have cut that number down?”


To me, there is such a huge difference between agreeing with something, and simply acknolwedging that there is a different point of view out there. And the critical thing to me is that it IS still Biblically-based. I’m not asking the conservative church to acknowledge a bunch of views that start by throwing the Bible out the window. I’m asking them to acknowledge the views that look at the incredible richness and complexity of God’s Word and see a different facet.



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
December 4, 2007, 13:21

Orfeo I can relate. I was angry, too, when I found out that there was another way of looking at the Biblical argument against homosexuality.


I am also angry about the conspiracy of silence that forces people to hide who they really are behind some acceptable mask and pretend everything is okay, this doesn’t only pertain to gay Christians, but to many others who hide what is really happening in their lives in order to keep up the “Happy and Blessed” facade.


All we can do is keep telling our stories, keep speaking out and making ourselves heard. Things will change when people are authentic and honest.


Blessings,



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
December 4, 2007, 15:10

Exactly it Magz, hiding behind the “blessed, holy and ALL ok ” facade……..Just had a Christian guy hit on my g/f on facebook and wanted to know what I was like, we reminded him he was a christian and he changed his tone but still, the things that go on in secret, the married men that tried to hit on me in church and so much more stories like that.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
December 4, 2007, 17:25

Yep from my experience its the resloved self makes the impact the angry self only reinforces the stereotype. its up to us to live it.


In the meantime we have to find out what to do with our anger. For me…the anger was towards God……it was useless directing it towards people as they were all imperfect……just like me.


I didn’t speak to God for 6 years……went out and had a wild time.


God can take it……..he is a big boy/girl/neuta



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
December 4, 2007, 17:30

I wish I could get past getting angry at people stage, the lack of respect is what gets me and the fact that they dont care, what they would hate done to them they dont think twice about doing to you. I know we are not perfect but to hurt or disrespect another human is just something I cant come to grips with at all, its as if the meaning of “human value” has diminished.


December 5, 2007, 22:48

Yep from my experience its the resloved self makes the impact the angry self only reinforces the stereotype. its up to us to live it.


In the meantime we have to find out what to do with our anger. For me…the anger was towards God……it was useless directing it towards people as they were all imperfect……just like me.


I didn’t speak to God for 6 years……went out and had a wild time.


God can take it……..he is a big boy/girl/neuta


Can I ask a question avb(I’m going to anyway :lol:). If you had died during those years of not talking to God(backslidden as Penties love to say) do you think you would have gone to hell? God and I haven’t been on speaking terms for close to ten years now which is fine with me. I’m an agnostic these days and the only thing that keeps me walking away from God altogether, and this is probably because of the fear of hell I was brought up with, is the fear that maybe the Penties are right and if I died tonight I would be eternally condemned.


Hope that’s not too deep a question. 🙄



Dove Snuggler
 
Joined in 2007
December 6, 2007, 20:37

Raskdog said:


“If you had died during those years of not talking to God(backslidden as Penties love to say) do you think you would have gone to hell?…”


Aside:

(I wish I could get “Quote” and “Emoticons” to work – I just get dots on my screen. Do I need a version of Java my struggling hard drive won’t accept? Please help!!!)


Anyway, I don’t know why I attempt to answer such a massively huge question, Raskdog. Just accept I’m delerious! I heard a young Salvo Bible study leader sprout something similar when I was 25 years younger and I choked… That’s why I’m having a go.


I’d be interested in re-reading what the Bible says about hell in post-Christ terms but I’d almost forgotten about this piece of theology. I don’t believe in hell as the only alternative to religious conformity. I think Pentecostals and all Christians run the risk of being over-zealous in their theologies for the sake of controlling their flocks. (Control is power!) Do you arrive at the conclusion you’re doomed from your own interpretation of scripture?


There are some isolated verses that talk about Jesus as the only way to God but I beg to differ. As if Buddhists, Hindus, Moslems and people who follow tribal religions etc. are all going to hell? Does all of scripture support this notion?


God appears to dislike immorality and even Justin Cannon isn’t convinced that prostitution escapes God’s disdain (http://www.inclusiveorthodoxy.org) (he’s my favourite interpreter of scripture). That’s not welcome news for several of my clients but I’m reminded that God loved the people of the world so much that she/he sent us her/his only son so that whoever believes receives the gift of eternal life (John 3:16). Wow!!! There’s no such thing as an automatic hell ejector button!!!


I also recollect the day 5 years ago that I sat beside a lake with my once best friend. He had read and listened to many of my exhausting arguments that God loves gays and that Biblical opposition is the result of mistranslation or insigificant isolated verses. Despite my arguments he proposed that the Bible prohibits homosexual behaviour. So in that case, where did I stand? All I could say at that stage is that Bible must then be wrong.


It’s almost immaterial to mention that I had counselled my married friend only 2 years earlier about his sexual obsession with a young female uni student. Or his dilemma that I’d never come on to him as a teenager when I’d obviously done so with several other male friends. Now he heads up a Christian counselling service and he seldom gives me a thought since I proved I couldn’t be controlled any longer. I’m quite content that God speaks through him, knowing he also speaks through me. If the vessel is available to God he uses it no matter how much trouble he has in doing so.


So no. Why would you go to hell for being separated from God? It’s the classic sheep parable. The shepherd discarded the 99 sheep that were safe in order to find the one that was lost. Perhaps you should find the children’s story by Nick Inkpen about The Lost Sheep. I read it to my 3 children many times, totally unaware I was reading about myself. Thank God he/she always gives us another chance.


A backslider is just an acrobatic Christian!


Kit


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