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End Times / Revelation theories

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ShadowBoxer
Moderator
Joined in 2005
October 31, 2012, 14:33

Given the mention of Spirit science I thought you might find this interesting – this is some information on the idea of the Soul and how it relates to quantum processes. I studied Penrose's work in mathematics and AI and he is a bit of a hero of mine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIyEjh6ef_8


http://www.yovisto.com/video/20412


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2225190/Can-quantum-physics-explain-bizarre-experiences-patients-brought-brink-death.html

"consciousness is a program for a quantum computer in the brain which can persist in the universe even after death, explaining the perceptions of those who have near-death experiences."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/28/soul-after-death-hameroff-penrose_n_2034711.html


http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/quantum-scientists-offer-proof-soul-exists/story-fneszs56-1226507452687


controversial research still but interesting – and worth noting that whilst I dont know one of the guys, Dr Penrose is one of the smartest men alive today and has shared joint awards with Steven Hawking for his work in Physics. He actually has an astounding track record of being right !



J
 
Joined in 2012
October 31, 2012, 17:51

I couldn't quite understand what Stuart Hameroff said, he's too smart for me and uses huge words lol. I listened for 5 minutes and still didn't get any of it, but I did watch some of the other vids, like that 'through the wormhole' thing with Morgan Freeman. Like Morgan Freeman says, as humans it's hard to comprehend so much information whilst also trying to figure everything out (our purpose, where we go when we die etc.), so really it's what we believe in, in the end that matters.


Hmm that number of the beast thing in wiki makes good sense with Neron Caesar equating to 666. So if all that is true, the only thing we would now be waiting for is the second coming of Christ, right?



ShadowBoxer
Moderator
Joined in 2005
October 31, 2012, 18:37

Well – Thats OK – anything worth learning takes time and effort.

Often these things need watching a number of times.

and Quantum stuff always takes a lot of thinking through….


But you wouldnt expect building an airplane or a TV to the easy. And you wouldnt let a surgeon who just sat down and read one easy book to operate on you (I hope) . The laws the universe works on take some thought and so if u want to understand the universe God created – you can guarantee it will take some thought and effort.


Its the same with the bible. It takes some thought and effort as well.

And no – you need to give a lot more thought to what the preterists believe.


Jesus said his second coming would happen while he was still alive. If you pop back up to my earlier posts you will see this

Now the key to understanding the bible in this area is the word " Παρουσία" – Parousia or Presence and is used in the New testament to refer to the second Coming.


Preterists (which included the apostles and the early church) believed that Jesus's second coming has ALREADY happened.

This is what I mean by assumptions and reading things into the scriptures that arent there.

The word used in the bible for the second coming is Presence. No one believed in a physical second coming until hundreds and hundreds of years after the apostles died. They believed that the destruction of the temple ushered OUT the old covenant (fulfilled) and brought in the new to replace it.

The belief in a physical second coming is a relatively new (and still controversial) belief from people who didnt have access to the original languages (or access to centuries of scholarship on the subject)

Now there are scholars who believe in futurism – but it begs the question – were the apostles and the church wrong for hundreds of years ? OR is the new interpretation correct ? (This is why studying church history is so important)


To decide which you believe you really need to think about the word presence – and to work out why THAT word was used (presence does NOT imply a physical body and do you think God uses incorrect words ?). You also need to explain why Jesus said he would all these would happen in the apostles life time and why the apostles and the early church believed it all had happened in 70 AD.


As I said before – futurists believe that the those verses are peoples opinion and thats the only way you can reconcile them – but then if you allow that -how do u decide which parts are opinion (and thus can be ignored) and which parts are not.


Its something that people take years to study. Its seriously one of the most complex theological parts of the bible … (and Ive never met anyone who really studied it seriously who stuck with futurism BUT Im sure they exist) I still havent made up my mind and Ive had decades to look into it.


If you want to understand all the issues and ALL the relevant verses and what they mean in the original languages -then I wouldnt worry about WHAT you believe and I would just keep an open mind on it and just read – but make sure you read from both points of view (futurist and preterist) …. and THEN you can decide – when you have all the facts. Theres no rush and I would suggest your better to take lots of time and allow yourself a chance to dig into this. (its more fun as well to not make up your mind too early. Remember – a mind is like a parachute. Neither work well closed. )


🙂



J
 
Joined in 2012
October 31, 2012, 20:26

True, I think I will just continue to read the bible as usual. All this trying-to-figure-revelation stuff is seriously doing my head in.


Speaking of the bible, I just received my new one today. An english standard version (ESV). It has both the old and new testaments in it (unlike my other separate bibles) and it has an awesome gold trim on the pages, woohoo. Love it.


Thanks for all your input you guys, and thanks for the info and links Shadow!



ShadowBoxer
Moderator
Joined in 2005
October 31, 2012, 21:42

Jordon


This is a good subject to wander back to occasionally – broswse through (not make any firm decisions) and then let it all mull around in the background for a while…..then wander back later and look again.


If you do decide to do that here are some more links for you to look at ….


7 Problems with Futurism

http://www.preteristcentral.com/Seven%20Problems%20with%20Futurist%20Eschatology.html


and this one which has an overview of the 4 main schools of thought (YES Ive only discussed two of them – but there are in fact four of them !! Remember its a complex subject)

http://www.ligonier.org/blog/preterist-approach-revelation-unfolding-biblical-eschatology/


and I know people are usually more comfortable with the view they are used to – so I will leave you with one more thought…..

Revelations opens with the declaration that these things “must soon take place” (1:1; 22:6). It opens and closes with declarations indicating that “the time is near” (1:3; 22:10).


Now this was a letter to the early church. It clearly tells them these things will happen soon. Do you think 2000 years is soon ? I bet you people who got that letter didnt think so. BUT 70 AD was soon. So not only Did Jesus say it must all happen in their lifetime (as we discussed earlier) but revelations itself says "soon" and "the time is near".


Now I know its not part of the pretestant bible – (it is in the eastern orthodox bible though and the ethiopian Jews treat it as canonical also) but I think a comparison of the Book of enoch is worth doing – where it says "and I knew what I saw, but [these things that I saw will] not [come to pass] for this generation, but for a generation that has yet to come."

So if Jesus and Revelations WERE talking about something that was 2000 years later – why do they say "Near" and "soon" and "this generation will not pass away" and not say something like the book of Enoch (which is thought to have been written around the first century)


give it time it will click eventually…


🙂


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