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Gay Identity What is it? Do I need it?

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Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
October 11, 2009, 22:09

I guess this comment relies how one defines the differences between gay people and straight people. Some would say that the only difference is that gay people are sexually and romantically attracted to their own sex, others whould add a whole host of historical, political, social and cultural items to that list. It’s rather subjective in the end. For some, the experience of “gayness” is extreemly far removed from “straightness” and for others it’s almsot identical. The idea of “gay identity” has been used the same way that identity has been used with all and any minority group, as a form of juxtaposition to the dominant culture. I may have a feminine idenity that makes me different to, and in a sense in oppisition to the dominant masculine discourse.


I believe in rights, and I believe that gay people should have them. Not because we are gay or different but because we are human, and the same. At the same time it ought to be reciognised that as a collective gay people have a unique history and culture, one that is different to but not in oppisition against straight people. Think about it, as a collective aboriginies identify as such. As idnividuals they identify in a whole host of unique ways depending on their history and preferances. Some have wholly intergrated into western society and some do their upmost of preserve traditional lifestyles. I think the same is true for gay people, some people have a defined gay identity and some people are happy to intergrate into the straight world as much as possible. One identity is taken on in a broad sense “Oh yes I’m gay, it has about the same significance as my eye or hair colour” and for others it has a whole lot of emotional significance because of the personal and collective histories embodied. Is either necessarily wrong or bad?



Chris
Administrator
Joined in 2009
October 11, 2009, 22:58

Think about it, as a collective aboriginies identify as such. As idnividuals they identify in a whole host of unique ways depending on their history and preferances. Some have wholly intergrated into western society and some do their upmost of preserve traditional lifestyles. I think the same is true for gay people, some people have a defined gay identity and some people are happy to intergrate into the straight world as much as possible.


I like that analogy a lot. Although I think as far as gays integrating in to the straight world goes, it might be more along the lines of them never integrating very much in to the gay world in the first place.


In any case, not only do I think that both ways are entirely legitimate, but right now I’d say both ways are needed, too.


If we were all integrated, and more or less an invisible community, would it be possible for us to put up a cohesive fight for equal rights? Would the media give a toss? Would the public be aware of our needs?


On the other hand if we all had strong gay identities, could our demands for equality be seen in the same light? If straight people can’t relate to any of us, how many fewer of them will care enough to lend support?


Thinking about it, I’d wager that the balance we have now is helping things progress at a fairly reasonable rate, and I think tipping it one way or the other would only slow things down.



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
October 12, 2009, 00:46

I guess this comment relies how one defines the differences between gay people and straight people. Some would say that the only difference is that gay people are sexually and romantically attracted to their own sex, others whould add a whole host of historical, political, social and cultural items to that list. It’s rather subjective in the end. For some, the experience of “gayness” is extreemly far removed from “straightness” and for others it’s almsot identical. The idea of “gay identity” has been used the same way that identity has been used with all and any minority group, as a form of juxtaposition to the dominant culture. I may have a feminine idenity that makes me different to, and in a sense in oppisition to the dominant masculine discourse.


I believe in rights, and I believe that gay people should have them. Not because we are gay or different but because we are human, and the same. At the same time it ought to be reciognised that as a collective gay people have a unique history and culture, one that is different to but not in oppisition against straight people. Think about it, as a collective aboriginies identify as such. As idnividuals they identify in a whole host of unique ways depending on their history and preferances. Some have wholly intergrated into western society and some do their upmost of preserve traditional lifestyles. I think the same is true for gay people, some people have a defined gay identity and some people are happy to intergrate into the straight world as much as possible. One identity is taken on in a broad sense “Oh yes I’m gay, it has about the same significance as my eye or hair colour” and for others it has a whole lot of emotional significance because of the personal and collective histories embodied. Is either necessarily wrong or bad?


I was waiting for you to pop in and share some of your pearls and insight…..thanks. Love the analogies too……makes sense to me.



gettingthere
 
Joined in 2008
October 12, 2009, 01:11

One identity is taken on in a broad sense “Oh yes I’m gay, it has about the same significance as my eye or hair colour” and for others it has a whole lot of emotional significance because of the personal and collective histories embodied. Is either necessarily wrong or bad?


YES! *emphatically bangs fist down on table*


No, not really. I actually agree totally with what you are saying, Sandy (as usual.) And obviously there are more than just two attitudes one can take in this issue. The extremes on both ends bother me… having all nonchalance with no pride and having all pride with no ability to mesh with others are both negative things. For me, my guess is I’d be closer towards the pride end of the spectrum (once I’m finally in a position to be fully open about my homosexuality anyway). Well, of course, gay people are all different so we shouldn’t be surprised that people’s attitudes towards being gay are also different. A very interesting topic indeed… and as Sandy pointed out this question is not at all unique to GLBT people.



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
October 12, 2009, 01:22

Although I think as far as gays integrating in to the straight world goes, it might be more along the lines of them never integrating very much in to the gay world in the first place.


I’d say that’s true for a lot of people. I think too, though, there are some people that just don’t like or fit in the gay world. “Gay culture” is predominantly youth orientated with sex and activism as it’s main focal points. It makes sense really. If the two most crucial things that differentiate straight people from gay people are sexual and romantic attraction and a history of prejudice then sex and activism aren’t just promiscuity or protest stereotypes being brandished around. Romance, sex and fighting for rights and so forth is what makes gay culture gay. πŸ˜† What if you’re in a long term relationship and don’t really care much for activism? You don’t really fit. Indeed you fit more into ‘straight culture’ that is predominantly preoccupied with things like raising children and owning your own home. Those things may fit more with where you’re at.


Thinking about it, I’d wager that the balance we have now is helping things progress at a fairly reasonable rate, and I think tipping it one way or the other would only slow things down.


I agree. I also think that people tend to have collective identities and individual identities (or self identity). People may identify with the gay community for a whole host of reasons and are quite happy to be “gay” and “out” and “proud” but their individual identity may be centered around their work or family, being gay is there but it’s not the predominant or even highly important element. I think this needs more understanding in society, different people place different emphasis on aspects of their identity and intergrating into the “straight world” isn’t an indictment on the gay community or difference necessarily, it just might be the actualisation of the fact that for a particular person their job is much more important than their sexuality and this is best expressed in the workforce which is generally seen as a domain of the straight community. Does that make sense?



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
October 12, 2009, 01:33

One thing I like about being a gay man is that it is the closest I’ll ever get to being royalty……. πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜†



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
October 12, 2009, 01:40

The extremes on both ends bother me… having all nonchalance with no pride and having all pride with no ability to mesh with others are both negative things.


Hmm… your comment just made me think of the development of punk culture. If you have a chance do some research into it, I think you’ll really like it. Basically it started out as a protest against mainstream society. Youth were being marginalised and told they were wrong and bad and unruly (sound familiar?) so individuals would protest by taking everyday things like…um say a paperclip and making it into something that at that time was frowned upon, like a nose ring. Whole sets of clothes were made out of garbage bags. These protesters were satarising the mainstream, poking fun at it and taking pride at being outside of society, the whole point was to be as different as possible because they just weren’t being accepted for who they are.


So what in the world does that have to do with being gay? Well not much actually but for some people its the same principal. Being “out there” and doing their upmost not to conform and relate is a form of protest against dominant discourses (or sets of ideas). Yes it doesn’t do much for the gay adgenda but it is indicative of a unique set of experiences for that person which have culminated in this form of expression. It’s ligitimate and more often than not its a crucial coping mechanism. The same could be said for people who are seen as apathetic.


It would be great if everyone was both able to come together as a collective community and also be able to relate to the straight world to the same degree. But obviously this isn’t the case and it’s worth reflecting on why we lean in one dirrection or the other, what compels us, what deters us and perhaps, in the end, be able to empathise with everyone on the Sandy scale of gay identity πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜†



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
October 12, 2009, 11:37


Hmm… your comment just made me think of the development of punk culture. If you have a chance do some research into it, I think you’ll really like it. Basically it started out as a protest against mainstream society. Youth were being marginalised and told they were wrong and bad and unruly (sound familiar?) so individuals would protest by taking everyday things like…um say a paperclip and making it into something that at that time was frowned upon, like a nose ring. Whole sets of clothes were made out of garbage bags. These protesters were satarising the mainstream, poking fun at it and taking pride at being outside of society, the whole point was to be as different as possible because they just weren’t being accepted for who they are.


So what in the world does that have to do with being gay? Well not much actually but for some people its the same principal. Being “out there” and doing their upmost not to conform and relate is a form of protest against dominant discourses (or sets of ideas). Yes it doesn’t do much for the gay adgenda but it is indicative of a unique set of experiences for that person which have culminated in this form of expression. It’s ligitimate and more often than not its a crucial coping mechanism. The same could be said for people who are seen as apathetic.


sometimes I think those things are also the person challenging others to love them. Well that is what Winkey Pratney used to say……anyone remember him?



iplantolive
 
Joined in 2008
October 17, 2009, 14:18

I’ve had a bit more time to think about this now … for me, my gay identity is part of my self identify – it’s not a separate component of my makeup (no, not THAT type of makeup πŸ˜‰ ) although it does remind me of the days when I was involved in stage productions having to wear foundation, eye shadow, lipstick etc πŸ˜†


Being a white collar professional worker, I need to be always mindful that I’m expected to present and project a certain image of my company to all manner of others … sometimes it aint easy to do πŸ™„ … I guess one needs to know how to separate their working life from their personal life if you’re in this type of situation … again getting the balance right can be a bit tricky as the two can overlap at times …



Anthony Venn-Brown
 
Joined in 2005
October 18, 2009, 11:26

I wonder what people think of this comment.


Homophobia and the closet are allies. Like an unhealthy co-dependent relationship they need each other to survive. One plays the victim living in fear and shame while the other plays the persecutor policing what is β€˜normal’. The only way to dismantle homophobia is for every gay man and lesbian in the world to come out and live authentic lives. Once they realise how normal we are and see themselves in us….the controversy is over.


It is interesting to think what would happen though….on a particularly pre-determined day that every single gay man and lesbian came out. Imagine the impact when, on that day, people all around the world suddenly discovered their bosses, mums, dads, daughters, sons, aunts, uncles, cousins, teachers, doctors, neighbours, colleagues, politicians, their favourite actors, celebrities and sports heroes, the people they loved and respected……were indeed gay.


All stereotypes would immediately be broken…..just by the same single act of millions of people…..and at last there would no longer be need for secrecy. The closet would become the lounge room. How much healthier would we be emotionally and psychologically when we could all be ourselves doing life without the internal and societal negatives that have been attached to our sexual orientation.


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