Hi

John, you quote William in saying “…The thing is, I think, those types of discussions never go anywhere – they’re like the World Wars: four+ years of a stalemate in which neither side gains ground but people still get hurt…”

Well people don’t just get hurt. The 2 world wars caused the deaths of 112 million people (Wikipedia). Perpetuating homophobic views against GLBTIQQ people also causes many untold deaths. I have been confronted by so many suicides myself that I wish the opponents of gay people would think before they speak.

I appreciate that some members of this forum are committed to Fred Nile style rigidity in regard to their biblical view of homosexuality. However, Freedom 2B means emphatically that people are free to express their experience and the meaning of their experience without prejudice.

If I’m wrong, then those who are not welcome on this site need to take our discussion somewhere else. So where?

I vote that there is room for all. And yes, there is a point where we need to get off the roundabout.

Kit

Ummm, ok?

All I was saying was I agreed with what was pointed out, you can argue and argue and argue your views and at some point you just have to stop and agree to disagree because people eventualy start getting defensive and then it turns ugly.

You read waaaaay to literaly into that quote. You obvioulsy have not read any of my other posts if you think I agree with the conservative christain views on homosexuality. Sandy and I have practiacly written a book over the last week debating her views over mine.

You are severly mistaken if you think I am predjudiced against anybody on this site, or that I would belittle the deaths of thousands of homosexuals during the holocaust. Ouch.

Hi William

Thanks, now I know. You’re off the hook.

You said a while back: “the Bible has been a great source of blessing to me”.

Me too. There’s something we have in common.

Cheers!

Kit

I agree the word ‘homophobia’ is seriously overused and misused.

I don’t agree that GLBT Christians (or GLBT people with Christian backgrounds) either should or shouldn’t think that homosexuality is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. For one thing, there are a lot of different things you might think of when you hear the word homosexuality or homosexual – from debauched orgies to attractions that are never acted upon.

For another, we all have a huge range of attitudes to (1) the status and importance of the Bible, and (2) the interpretation of certain passages of the Bible.

On the weekend I came across GayChristianNet for the first time. They’ve gone so far as reducing the debate to ‘Side A’ and ‘Side B’. One group of GLBT Christians believe that God blesses and approves of committed, monogamous homosexual relationships. The other group believes God calls people with same-sex attractions to be celibate.

I’m not saying we all have to stick a label on ourselves, but it seems that at GCN, both Sides are clear that there is space and room for the other.

And finally… I don’t believe these arguments are entirely useless. I, for one, have moved from one ‘Side’ to the other. But it’s taken over a decade, so I would advise against anyone expecting rapid results. 😉

In line with the discussion about homophobia… knowing that the term is being overused in general society. What is it that within the Church. How do we overcome the barriers so that others can be spared from negative experience that would or could harm them.

You know its interesting that the bible tells us to name the sin… so that we can nail it and gain power over it.

What name should we give it to enable us to confront or support gay individuals who identify themselves as Christian.

Thanks in advance

Craig.