Hi Alucard

Thanks for posting this. Yes it’s an interesting topic indeed.

I’m certainly not a biblical scholar but I’ve done some biblical studies and my own exploration in this area especially. So, based upon that, these are my thoughts.

As for how much people understood about homosexuality in biblical times compared to how we view it today in western cultures, I’m really not sure. I mean I know they had pederasty which was big amongst the Greeks, involving men having relationships with slave boys. For some in those circles it was considered the purest love of all (but that sounds like a justification to me). For others outside those circles, it was frowned upon and seen as exploitation, which is how most of us would see that behaviour today. I don’t know whether Paul was talking about devoted gay couples as well. I don’t see any evidence for that and I’m wondering what evidence your preachers had to support that notion.

I agree that just because someone is born with something, doesn’t necessarily validate it. But if genetics are involved with sexuality (as I believe they probably are for most people) and gay people are mostly born that way, it does point to sexuality being deeper than learned behaviour and evidence that it’s a ‘natural’ part of God’s creation. We don’t yet have evidence of a sexuality gene but I think it won’t be long before we do. But then even with that information, those who believe that we need to overcome our natural inclinations will still preach that, and even moreso. This shows that our bias will lead to how we interpret information, thus helping to form our beliefs which can be based on what we want to believe rather than truth. We are all guilty of that at times.

I don’t think men are any more inclined to polygamy than women. I think we’ve been culturally programmed to think and allow that, to believe that men have greater libidos than women, which is nonsense.

I think it’s our duty to seek out the truth in as unbiased way as we can. And rather than overcoming our feelings, I think it’s wise to be aware of and try to understand them. But then I speak as a counsellor, thus showing my own bias! 🙂

I’ve also heard it said by biblical scholars and modern Jewish commentators that Jewish people had (and still have) a squeamishness about the body and penis and we see that reflected, especially in the new testament with all the talk about how the flesh is evil and ‘carnal’. I think that’s sad and shows a primitive splitting off between spirit and body rather than a healthy integration of the two. In simple terms, they were saying that spirit = good and flesh = bad. Women were associated with the body because of childbirth and the practical nurturing duties they engaged in while men were considered capable of using so-called higher faculties, like the mind and spirit. (The word ‘mother’ comes from ‘matter’). Women were therefore considered not as spiritual. With that view in mind during ancient times, you can see why Peter and other men tried to exclude women from Jesus’ company and teachings. I find that very sad and infuriating. I also think that God did create the body afterall and so I think we can all use it for good if we want to.

I’m interested to hear others’ thoughts here.

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Hi Mr Summit

You said:

There is one passage in scripture where Paul speaks unfavorably about gay relationships to get across another point entirely, but entire books where he deconstructs the purity code and the self-righteousness it endears. Those greater writings are far more comprehensive, easily understood, and less prone to proof texting.

As for admitting that homosexuality is a biological trait, and then saying that gay people should be celebrate, I can’t imagine a more cruel position. I mean, they’re placing their theology above people. That’s just crazy.

Yes very well said.

Jesus had strong words to say about people who placed their judgments and rules upon others. He also always put people first. We do well to remember that.

Blessings,

Ann Maree