Well I think the obvious counter-point is that the bible isn’t out of date. I believe Jesus died to save the world, I believe that His death brings salvation and grace for all who believe and I believe God sent Him to die because He loves us more than words can say. How do I know all this? Its all in the bible. If I am to believe all the good things mentioned above then why not what the bible says on homosexuality? Why are the gospels applicable and not the rest of the bible? much of which was written after Jesus so then ought to be less dated.

I guess what I am saying is I have a hard time picking and choosing. We should ask ourselves why we feel the bible no longer has relevance, because it was written for one peoples in one time and place or because we have gone our own way and done our own thing?

You are obviously far luckier or far more pious than I am if God has given you some special take on homosexuality. So I guess the next question becomes what about the rest of us? What about those who never had assurance from God personally? Is there an objective way of measuring whether homo-eroticism is right or not without relying on a subjective experience that not all share?

Also on a side note, I would never and have never said that homosexuals who are in relationships will go to hell. All we need for salvation is Jesus and his grace is sufficient if you follow Him. “works” or the choices we make in our lives are a natural outpouring of that faith, it is the way we serve to glorify God and that is why it is important.

so where does your idea of God come from? Why do you believe God loves you? Why do you believe in heaven? Why do you believe God created the world? For me it all comes from the bible but if you throw away its authority then what grounds do you have for believing in God at all, or is that subjective too?

Also on a side note, I would never and have never said that homosexuals who are in relationships will go to hell. All we need for salvation is Jesus and his grace is sufficient if you follow Him. “works” or the choices we make in our lives are a natural outpouring of that faith, it is the way we serve to glorify God and that is why it is important.

Its interesting that you have said this Sandy, since we are told that we will go to hell. So what is it, will I go to hell for being homosexual and a christian or not? If I wont go to hell for being a Gay/Lez Christian in a r’ship then why is there such a problem for people about it.

If it is about glorifying God in my everyday life, then me being in a wheelchair is hardly glorifying a God who says he can make the lame walk, as many see it, I mustnt be believing enough, or giving enough or I must already be damned. (its true there are people who think this way 😡 ).

I should be up running about saying how God miraculously healed me and he can heal anyone of any affliction as the inerrant word of God says. It happens for some but why not for all?.Its written that yes God can do it and does it, he said so himself and yet we dont see much of it.

But in saying that, I do glorify God in keeping my faith and still not harboring bitterness because of it and so it is with my orientation, I wouldve loved to have children 😥 , its in me in every way but I cant get married to a man, so I live my life honouring God as I am in whatever I do r’ship wise and any other way possible, not flawlessly but with honesty as in my heart I believe I can be. ( on a side note I am in remission from MS and healing slowly so yes it is happening, without medicine but in no way is it instant but still im very very thankful. 🙂 )

Oh! YOU GO GIRLS!!! LOL!!!

Dang!! you two can hold a debate!! LOL! 😆 😆

So I’m reading through all of these posts. We have Sandy, Joe and Magsdee. Sandy, from a more conservative traditional view, Joe from a more liberal, progressive view point, and Magsdee making some really good observations. Here is what I am seeing.

Sandy, in this and many other posts on different threads, you constantly make it clear that living the homosexual lifestyle, even in a monogamous, loving relationship, does NOT glorify God. That being gay is a condition of the mind to be repaired rather than a natural identity from birth. You do say that homosexuals are not necessarily damned to hell, but that God is still against it, and even if we do live our lives to “Glorify God” we will still barely get into heaven “by the skin of our teeth”. If you go back and re-read through your posts this is the message you are conveying to everyone. In your opinion, we should not deny the fact that we are gay, but we should not live it either. Very much like the U.S. military’s “don’t ask don’t tell policy”!!! LOL! 😆

I disagree with the “barley getting into heaven” theory. That insinuates that there will be some kind of ranking system when we do get into heaven. The Pope and Mother Teresa will be in the VIP section, kickin it with Moses and the 12 disciples. All the people that read their Bible and prayed everyday will be Gods favorites, and the rest of the people that did the bare minimum will have the short end of the stick in heaven. They’ll live in heavens trailer park instead of a mansion. Like heaven is one big game of Monopoly. Only the most pious, saintly people get to live on Boardwalk and Park place. 😉 Doesn’t the Bible say that God would rather have us be “hot” or “cold”, we know that God doesn’t like wishy washy, half way Christians. It’s hypocritical.

I think what Magsdee and Joe are trying to say is that they are trying to be true to themselves, and not be “warm” when it comes to their faith. That by trying to suppress their sexuality and live the way the conservative Christian community interprets the Bible is unproductive in their walk with God, because it keeps them from being who they truly are.

If you are at peace with the way you are living your life, as a celibate Christian, choosing to not have a partner, then so be it. However, the message of your beliefs, or how I think a lot of the people on this site are interpreting that message is very discouraging.

If I had never been on this site before and was reading through some of these threads I would look at what you are saying and have the attitude of “well why even bother to try!”

It’s like what you are saying is, even with the best of intentions, your “homoerotic” actions (regardless of the dynamics of those actions, i.e.: a monogamous loving relationship) are still displeasing to God, and He is against the “lifestyle” that you are choosing to live.

I read that message and think, “Well if that is truly the case, then why even try?!?! Even in the best scenario I am barely getting into heaven, so why bother! No matter how hard I try to live a Godly life, I still loose out in the end, so forget it. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, God will never approve of me.”

Your view points, as they are very good for debate, are very disheartening for anyone trying to get out of the mindset that you are in right now. Even after reading all of your posts, and looking at your story, you still seem to be two sided to me. On one hand your supportive of a struggling gay Christian saying that they should accept who they are, yet turn around and tell them that what they are feeling is against the will of God, and that if they do choose to act on those same sex desires they will be living in even more of a life of sin than they all ready are. Any Christian struggling with they’re sexual identity can get that same message by walking in to any Assemblies of God church today. How does that help them in their walk with the Lord?

To me, it doesn’t, it only makes things worse. Instead of trying to follow God, most people who heard that message get discouraged and just walk away. (Its what I did, its what many people did) How is that a productive message to the thousands of people out there who are in church and still in the closet?

Its more destructive ant it is constructive. If that is the case, is that message and mindset truly Godly? Or just religious and homophobic?

Now don’t think that I am calling you religious or homophobic, I am not saying that AT ALL!! I respect your view points and think that your decisions in your own life are very honorable. All I am saying is this; How is your message to people struggling to accept their sexuality and their faith encouraging and productive to their relationship with God?

Like I said before, if homosexuality is really that detestable of a sin in God’s eyes, then accepting your same sex attraction to women is just as bad as having a live in girlfriend or engaging in “homoerotic” behavior. Yes, you are not acting on your feelings, but you are still accepting that they are there and encouraging others to do the same! If being gay is that much of a sin then there isn’t a difference between how you are living, and how my boyfriend and I are living.

I think when ever you respond, there is a hint of condemnation and that is why everybody argues back with you. Not that YOU are condemning anybody, but the beliefs that you have chosen to accept that mirror the conservative Christian church today, do. 😕