I don’t what it is about the pentecostal movement that gives the leaders a propensity to fail morally(I am talking from the pentes view of morality, my view of morality is different these days). It doesn’t seem to happen in the more traditional churches(apart from the whole Catholic priest thing). The leader of the organisation I grew up in, the Logos Foundation, was exposed as have adulterous relationships the whole time he was the leader. The thing about these leaders too is that they have no hesitation in condemning others failings. I remember our leader(leader sounds cultish and ours almost was but that’s what we called him) used to preach against the likes of Jimmy Swaggart, Jimmy Bakker etc when he was doing the same thing himself. Was he in denial or rationalising his behaviour to himself?

The pastor of the biggest pentecostal church in Brisbane also suffered a similar fate, as did Frank Houston, Pat Misiti and hundreds of other head honchos in the pentecostal movement. The thing with pentecostal churches is that they are so personality based that when leaders fall it brings down the whole church with them. When our leader fell from grace I remember the meeting. People were in tears, outraged, some have left the church(church in general, not the specific church) and never come back.

So, back to my original question, why does this seem to happen so often in the pentecostal movement?

Raskdog, I think they are trying sooo hard to be ”beyond reproach” that they forget about their own human frailty! As their churches grow they have a bigger and bigger responsibility not just for the flock but also as examples. They make ‘small’ mistakes ie a little lie here or there, usually with a self justification, that it won’t happen again, or maybe put themselves in a questionable moral position ie after hours councel with a woman , that could call them into account. It’s like an out of control snowball rolling down a slope, it gets larger and larger until it crashes and everyone knows about it! I believe a church or religious group needs to be accountable to each other and not just have the guy at the head, shouldering more than they can handle ( or think they can!)

Raskdog, I think they are trying sooo hard to be ”beyond reproach” that they forget about their own human frailty! As their churches grow they have a bigger and bigger responsibility not just for the flock but also as examples. They make ‘small’ mistakes ie a little lie here or there, usually with a self justification, that it won’t happen again, or maybe put themselves in a questionable moral position ie after hours councel with a woman , that could call them into account. It’s like an out of control snowball rolling down a slope, it gets larger and larger until it crashes and everyone knows about it! I believe a church or religious group needs to be accountable to each other and not just have the guy at the head, shouldering more than they can handle ( or think they can!)

I definitely agree with the accountability thing. With the more traditional churches. like the Anglican and Presbyterian churches there is a much more rigid heirarchy and the ministers are much more accountable.

A lot of independent pentecostal pastors are accountable to nobody.

yes its an interesting question. Having been there – done that I guess i can offer some insights. You could have put me on that list if you wanted to. I wouldn’t have been offended. whats done is done. the most important thing to me now …..is who I am now. …..right in this moment.

1. I’m not so sure as some others have said that in leaders from our background are more likely to fall into immorality. Looking back over Pente history it has been one of the four G’s. The Gals, the Gold, the Glory or the Grog. If it wasn’t adultery it was greed or pride and some even ended up alcoholics….which began with a little nip after the service to help them sleep. All these things though are human fragilties……and not exclusively ministers or even christian problems.

2. As Rob mentioned our preachers are more public, more out there, more ‘charismatic’……it goes on in other denominations just as much….believe me.

3. There is a psychological term ‘projection’. this is when the person might project their own internal dysfunction on to anther person or it came out in some behaviour. I think we could Jimmy Swaggart would be a great example of this kind of behaviour Preaching so vehemently against pornography whilst visiting prostitutes. Its complex. So some preachers who are hiding something will manifest that in an unhealthy way…..like being jdugemental and condemning.

the thing that i could never figure out was why It didn’t happen for me. Looking back I can’t see any time when my preaching and ministry turned from preaching a positive life message. Except in the last few months when i was burnt out…..but i think I took that out more on the church than condemning sinners.

4. Another factor to consider is the culture you are surrounded with. the language and spirit is always one of vitory, faith and overcoming. So if you are not making the grade in your private life and up there as a leader then it is incredibly difficult to face the truth. And if you do who do you tell. Who can you trust with that kind of information. Thats where the accountability thing comes into it. I think that from the big public falls there have been those who have learnt lessons and made corrections. I know of ministers today who have that level of accountability.

I think it is best if you take Geoff’s name out of this post Raskdog. I know Geoff……and as far as i know Geoff resigned from the ministry for different reasons besides immorality. Unless you know something i dont.

In the end we are all human beings. That means imperfections, failuares, shortcomings etc. Churches will never be able to escape that whether that be in the leadership or the congregations. This does not excuse inappropriate behavoiur but reminds us that in the end it is a level playing field.

Phew…….that was more than i planned write.

I haven’t seen any evidence that Pentecostal ministers have greater problems with “immorality” than ministers in other churches . The falls are just more public and spectacular

Ah poor Jimmy Swaggart – I always found him to be a repulsive figure. However there was an serious biography written about 10 years which gives people some insight into his life and I now feel now feel pity for him . Its all there – the dysfunctional family – the incredible sexual repression and a rigid belief system that prevented him from getting the help he so desparately needed . And the allegations about the sexuality of his wife are surprising .

Yeah I read that too. Very interesting biography.

Which raises a point. A lot of people are drawn to the Pentecostal movement because they have troubles in their lives that the Pentecostals promise to help them overcome. However they find that these problems are not so easy to overcome as first thought. The pentecostal movement restricts immoral behaviour, it doesn’t resolve it. Many people, including pastors, find that they have not dealt with these issues and they cover it up as the Pentecostals like an outward show that everything is ok. I remember the church I grew up in. Everybody dressed up in their Sunday best and went to church looking like happy perfect families when often they were anything but. Away from church there are all kinds of stuff going on. Pastors are no exception to this rule.