Hi Jason

Love your comments and the analogy about shopping! 😉

Re the quote: “My morality and faith are choices – my sexual orientation however isn’t’ “?, it took me a while to recognise that morality and faith could be expressed in various ways. The idea of choosing how my faith manifested was a foreign one to me. In the previous church I was part of, faith could only be acceptable in one format – the one they told us to follow. Thankfully, I’ve moved a lot from that position.

These days I love the fact that there is diversity in faiths just like in humanity. And I really love the idea that we each have an opportunity in every moment for how we choose to step up to our challenges. No matter what we face, we can always choose to express those values most dear to us. We can choose to be more fully ourselves. 🙂 I love that scripture that says we need to each work out our own salvations with fear and trembling. To me that speaks of the reverence around the personal journey and the experiential nature of it, by trial and error, rather than by indoctrination or interference from others. I think that involves quite a process of inward work and development over time, and is not an easy path, but it is rewarding and part of growing up.

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Thanks Ann Maree. 🙂

I have to agree that it really does take time – even sometimes years to decide or recognise or even understand what role ‘faith’ or ‘morality will be expressed in our lives, and how we can express that in an individual sense.

I really think that ‘the transition’ from our previous understanding / experience of Christianity towards a place where we can live comfortably with our spirituality and our sexuality can be a lot like a ‘revolution’. It can start with a mumour of discontent or disatisfaction with the status quo, which I suppose gets louder and louder, until you simply can’t ignore it, and it won’t go away – and then at some point, there is like an outright rebellion inside our selves. I remember saying to myself, 8 years ago – ‘I can’t do this anymore. I can’t pretend to be straight and Christian anymore! I am gay! I can’t change that!’

I remember a couple of months ago, watching an interview of a female protester in Egypt, who had become a centre piece for overseas media outlets, before the protesters had achieved their desired political change / outcome. She was talking about how, when President Mubarak stepped down, she felt a euphoric state, knowing that they were free, and the people were celebrating on the streets. And even though, she was so happy with what they had achieved, she also recognised that eventually, the euphoria will pass, as the freedom gained becomes part of the normalcy of everyday life. And she spoke about how then they would have to adjust to and settle into a ‘new way’ forward, and that people would have to play a part or work out what that freedom would mean to them.

I suppose, in a sense, when we come out as GLBT, we can feel a sense of euphoria, too, in the new found freedom. And over time, we have to adjust to the ‘new way’ forward and ‘work out’ what and how that freedom works for ourselves.

“My morality and faith are choices – my sexual orientation however isn’t’ “

Agree, but .. .. ..

OK, so we have reconciled that we CAN be gay AND maintain a (Christian) faith (have a relationship with God).

BUT, then our choice of morality – i.e., our chosen standards of right or good conduct (in this case in respect to sexual behaviour) – is not made in a vacuum.

There is a contest (a battle) of view-points to consider, including :-

>> our faith view derived from the Christian teaching we have absorbed, our own bible study, the example of other people of faith, etc.

>> the pervading influence of the surrounding secular culture (especially as expressed through the media) as to what is / is not acceptable (sexual) moral behavior

>> in particular, the influence of the “gay culture’ (‘gay community’, ‘gay lifestyle’ .. .. call it what you will) where we may have sought some level of solace/companionship/involvement/acceptance.

Seems to me that, as we battle these viewpoints in our heads, we are more often at risk of twisting the ‘faith’ view-point (especially if we come from a conservative / evangelical / charismatic background expression of faith) to fit acceptance with the prevailing, popular ‘gay culture’ viewpoint (at times, an almost “anything goes” approach).

Rather than the other way ’round.

It becomes ‘situational ethics’ – adjust our faith (including reinterpreting scripture) to fit what suits us.

And we either:-

>> simply ignore (refuse to discuss) the biblical moral questions (what I have previously described as ‘the elephant in the room’), or

>> we endulge in some very fancy intellectual gymnatics to justify a departure from our original faith viewpoint.

Food for thought !

I have to agree that it really does take time – even sometimes years to decide or recognise or even understand what role ‘faith’ or ‘morality will be expressed in our lives, and how we can express that in an individual sense.

I really think that ‘the transition’ from our previous understanding / experience of Christianity towards a place where we can live comfortably with our spirituality and our sexuality can be a lot like a ‘revolution’. It can start with a mumour of discontent or disatisfaction with the status quo, which I suppose gets louder and louder, until you simply can’t ignore it, and it won’t go away – and then at some point, there is like an outright rebellion inside our selves. I remember saying to myself, 8 years ago – ‘I can’t do this anymore. I can’t pretend to be straight and Christian anymore! I am gay! I can’t change that!’

I remember a couple of months ago, watching an interview of a female protester in Egypt, who had become a centre piece for overseas media outlets, before the protesters had achieved their desired political change / outcome. She was talking about how, when President Mubarak stepped down, she felt a euphoric state, knowing that they were free, and the people were celebrating on the streets. And even though, she was so happy with what they had achieved, she also recognised that eventually, the euphoria will pass, as the freedom gained becomes part of the normalcy of everyday life. And she spoke about how then they would have to adjust to and settle into a ‘new way’ forward, and that people would have to play a part or work out what that freedom would mean to them.

I suppose, in a sense, when we come out as GLBT, we can feel a sense of euphoria, too, in the new found freedom. And over time, we have to adjust to the ‘new way’ forward and ‘work out’ what and how that freedom works for ourselves

HI Jason

That’s a good way to think about our process of integrating sexuality and spirituality, to see the journey as something like an inward revolution. And yes, I think I saw that same interview with the woman in Egypt. It’s true that after the initial excitement of positive change, the dust settles and we have to find a way to integrate that into the everyday.

Blessings,

Ann Maree

I see this on the bottom of Anthony’s (AVB) signature block whenever I read something posted by AVB, and it makes me think about it all the time.

I personally like it, as for me, it really defines who I am as a gay man from a christian background. I am able to identify with it, as a ‘liberated’ gay male. 😀 When I ‘came out’ of the church in 2002 and then officially came out to friends & family, I was out there to experiment in the gay scene. I decided that there was essentially no right or wrong, as long as I wasn’t huring anyone. A lot of the old boundaries were put aside, and I was having fun. I won’t say I did everything that I saw friends and everyone else around me doing. Lol. But I had fun exploring lots of things and getting to know lots of different and interesting people.

These days, I have settled down in being a bit more of suburban gay man, and I have decided which things offered to me as a gay male are for me or not. I have used this analogy before – but it is a little like going shopping. Somethings look appealing – but you don’t buy them at all – other things are part of the staple diet – and others are just ‘treats’. 😉

Anyway, some of the things I experimented with, went against my previous ‘moral code’ – but I was having fun and stretching the boundaries with all the new stuff. I suppose, since then, I have worked out a new ‘moral code’ that I apply to my own choices.

I have also begun to work out ‘my faith’ as well. I have to say that I viewed a lot of what I heard within the church and within my ‘Christian’ family throughout my childhood / youth and adult life as simply doctrine, and effectively ‘shelved’ it for another time when I felt like sorting through it all. In many cases, it is still on those shelves, probably gathering a bit of dust. 🙂 However, as many here would agree, it is hard to simply ignore something or the key characters in what was essentially a central plank in your life – God / Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Over time, I had to work through what was for me, the negative impact of those doctrines and experiences, and how those doctrines and experiences influenced or in many ways, tainted my view of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. In a sense, I have chosen to separate them from the doctrine and experiences and I simply see God as loving creator – Jesus as his son, etc. I know reading other posts here, that some have come to different conclusions about their spirituality or simply don’t identify with anything that relates to former belief system. And that is okay. Hey – we are all individuals, and we have to work out our faith – whatever that may be.

Anyway, what do others think about the statement – “My morality and faith are choices – my sexual orientation however isn’t’ “?

this was a statement I think I began making soon after the first edition of my autobiography came out. it seems that every time I was confronted by someone about being gay they automatically assumed that I was immoral/promiscuous. Not only was this not true…..I felt judged and was offended. You have no idea how I live my private life….I thought. How can you condemn me just because I’m gay.

it seem by making that statement that it helped people to see the difference…..and separate the two. some insider information….it was that statement I made to the Assemblies of God national executive several years ago that influenced a re-write of their position statement on homosexuality.