Hi William

I think we’ve got a little hung up on the word ‘basic’. I don’t think Michelle was equating it with whether I have food today.

I’ll quote Maslow because he has an interesting perspective that has been argued over for years just like our favourite topics. In his Hierarchy of Needs, he said that people are concerned about Physiological needs (e.g. food, sleep, sex); Safety needs (e.g. employment, shelter, health); Belonging needs (e.g. friendship, family, sexual intimacy); Esteem needs (e.g. confidence, achievement, respect); and Self-Actualisation needs (e.g. morality, creativity, spontaneity, problem solving, lack of prejudice).

He said that as some of the more basic needs are met, people tend to reach for the higher level needs of belonging, esteem and self-actualisation.

Now my point: one of these might include marriage which for me or someone else might be (or become) a basic human need. If so, why isn’t it our right to marry?

You enjoy the right to study, work, travel on public transport, fall in love with someone of either gender, be acquitted of a crime you committed because nobody can prove you guilty, have a child even if you are an incompetent parent, kill whales if you are Japanese or Norweigan. But you cannot marry someone of the same sex.

There are many further issues about this that have been discussed but I’ve vowed to keep my posts brief from here on and I’ve already breached that. So with all the other issues in mind but not necessarily proven, whose business is it if two people of the same sex marry, except their own?

Yet because we have a continuing homophobic society, we still outlaw same-sex marriage and securities marriage can bring, such as the potential loss of shelter and possessions for someone in a same-sex committed relationship when their partner dies. That is not justice, so to some of us it is a breach of human rights.

Just a few rushed thoughts.

Kit

Hi William

I did delete the message obviously not before you saw it … sorry about the confusion. I changed my mind on the post as I was particularly upset with what you wrote and when I wrote it I was too emotional so what I wrote would not have made a real lot of sense.

On the issue of human rights I a have good grasp on the topic … I work in the field of disaster management coordinating disaster welfare relief and the operation of emergency shelters and settlement camps. I can tell you that people at emergency shelters are not concerned about getting fed, having water, shelter, beds, clothes, but are more interested in finding loved ones that are missing either prior to or upon entering the shelter.

I do a lot of work with Asian delegates training emergency service personnel in disaster welfare … I can tell you that marriage is very important to them and they see it as a fundamental right. They value it much great than many things we take for granted. Why is that? Marriage brings them security … firstly from a personal level but also from having children which is their future. If you asked them to choose over marriage and the basics mentioned they choose marriage. This is because they have learnt to fight for the other but the loss of marriage means a loss of so much more.

This knowledge doesn’t come from books, the Internet or from pulpit at church but comes for years of working with people in need and with those that provide these valuable welfare services.

Now what offended me was the allegation or summation that I would have something to personally gain out the legalisation of same sex marriages. There is something you need to know about me I am a transsexual woman. I have been legally married both before man and God for almost seven years. I know how valuable marriage is personally. Unless you have been married or are in a long-term commitment relationship it is a very difficult to provide comments on the subject. My wife means the world to me as I do to her. The only thing legalisation of same sex marriages would mean is that I could add my true gender of female to my birth certificate. But it is not that important to me because it still will have a birth gender on there as male … it is only an addendum. All of my important documents are in my correct gender so it does not matter. I gain nothing out of a change in legalisation other than to see the rights that heterosexual couples take for granted being given to same sex couples.

I would love to hear from long term couples on this site and they can tell what it would mean to them to get married. It is not a piece of paper or a ceremony it is about the commitment of love to another. Unless you have experienced what that is and how fundamental that need is it is very difficult to understand. I hope you do get to experience that for yourself one day.

When I studied psychology at university the issue of love was taught in first year psych and in that they talked about experiments where children were given the basics of life and were deprived of love. These children failed to thrive and some died. This wasn’t a cruel experiment but was observations made of children in orphanages. When those children were give close love and were held even for a short period of time they recovered and began to thrive.

The need for love and to be loved is a fundamental right and marriage is very much at its heart.

Thank you William … much appreciated.

Oh my goodness… this is so interesting… the arguement for and against is so addictive! Giggles. 😆

My partner of 13 years walked by and asked me what it was… told him it was F2B and gave him a quick rundown of the issues… he’s response was… wait for this. 😯

“Render unto God what is his and render unto Geasar what is his”. Union with another person under God means that the two have become one… if the government makes it legal or illegal does not change what God states. One could apply that scripture to anything and hmmmmm interesting. 🙂

Hmmmm he said something more… giggles but I was far too gone into my own thinking. 😆

My partner is bi-sexual. He doesn’t believe in marriage between two men. I do for legal reasons. I personally see that, really under God I am married to my partner. I am the love of his life as he is the love of my life. Everything I have is his and vice versa. We share a house, with 5 mad cats and a guidedog, we argue like a married couple and yet we have our passionate moments. Oh dear! So yeah I want the Australian government to fix it so that we have the same equality as a married couple. For instance… my superannuation my brother is listed… and yet for my partner I have to re-enter his name in every three years… Im not married to my brother, I dont plan to do that… I dont live with him, I dont have any emotional connection with him on a sexual level and yet the man in my life can’t get my superannuation… shame on them. There’s more there are 58 inequality laws still outstanding and I think its about time to fix it. Its not to make my life easy… it just gives me the assurance that should I die tomorrow that my partner is going to be in good hands and looked after so that he can fall inlove with someone else and partner up with them… I don’t want him to be lonely for the rest of his life.

I know that God was always on about social justice… and what has been argued here should reflect that God can not influeance what the world wants to do and how they go about it. God will empower situation to happen to swing in our favour because we asked for it. Seeking justice is and has always been a part of what God is like… so gay couple wants to marry and have the same legal stuff as married couples do… what’s the hangups? Hmmm 🙄

Hugs to all and good night. Off to bed. One of my cat is growling and wants me to go to bed! Smile.

Hugs to all

All prayer is heard by God and the fact that certain prayers havent been answered yet or are taking there time or dont get answered just shows that HE is in control and only HE will bring it about if and when HE sees fit plus our own will comes into it too, he never crosses that.

God does stick up for injustices, he has mercy on the downtrodden, he hears the plight of those who suffer and He moves where people are willing to co-operate with Him. Sadly not many are willing and hence the state of the world as it is.

I really cant see what the injustice would be in allowing us to marry and be accepted into society as a whole.