*shrugs* looks like I’m out-numbered. I guess we will find out who is right eventually…

I never denied that same-sex marriages would eventually be legalized, they are well on their way to being so. As to whether mainstream churches will eventually accept homosexual people and affirm both their marriages and their sexual relationships, who knows? It’s possible. I remember the only day I have ever walked out of a church was when my pastor said something like “I have some church news, John and Jane are getting divorced, obviously this is a hard time for them but I think that after ten years of trying to resolve their issues, divorce was the right decision, now we are going to start our study of Romans with chapter 1…”. And then went on to say how immoral homosexuality was. If people can be so hypocritical as to endorse divorce as most churches do today then homosexuality isn’t far behind.

Just an aside on Phillip Jensen, don’t assume just because I am conservative that I love the guy. There is actually a thread on here somewhere (maybe it got deleted) that I started after I read the first page of his book “Pure Sex” (I only got to the first page because I was so disgusted). I haven’t bothered to keep up with his opinions on homosexuality or other topics so I can’t really have an opinion on the rest of it.

I have never spoken to my gay friends about same-sex marriage except in the context of turning down invitations to commitment ceremonies so I’m not sure what they would think. I gathered that since they know I am against gay relationships they would know I was against gay marriage and they are still my friends.

In the end this whole debate (with the exception to my obviously idiotic foray into a political argument of which I know nothing about) comes back to a recognition and affirming of gay relationships. Something I don’t do and if other people want to identify themselves through what they do and feel instead of who they are as a child of God then thats not my problem. In the end I do show gay people love despite not endorsing what they do because we, thankfully, are not the sum of our actions or emotions. We are all God’s creation, valued and loved by Him and that is what I focus on. It’s rare that I will even bring up homosexuality.

I could be wrong, but after reading through all of these posts I have started to see a pattern. The people who really dont care much for the issue of gay marraige or are flat out against it, are not in a relationship. The ones who are more passionate about this issue are. (myself included)

Its very easy to say how you are against something that you can not personally relate to yourself.

Heck, when I was married I spouted off all the clobber scriptures and said how deceived gay people were by the devil. All to make myself feel better, and justify the beliefs that had been programed in my brain since I was a kid. I was miserable! Only now that I am accepting myself, and facing my fear of realizing that maybe, just maybe, some of my “black and white” beliefs were in error. I never realized how close minded I was on the issue until I finaly came to grips with the fact that I could not change my sexual orientation, that being gay is who I was, NOT a choice.

Even when I first came out to myself I was against the thought of gay marraige. I still had my old mentality programed in my head. Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!!! The thought of gay marraige is next to blaphamy for most Christians. ESPECIALY pentecostals.

Sandy I say this in all love, because I was you two or three years ago. I have come a long way in accepting my self and coming to terms with my own sexuality. Its beeen a journey that I am no where near the end of. It just sounds to me like you are refusing to accept your own sexuality. Like if I had not read any of the other posts that you wrote, I could have swore you were a completely straight woman totally against any gay agenda, Christian or otherwise.

Not being able to marry the person I love, being denied that simple act totaly demeans who I am as a person. Its degrading. It is saying that heterosexual is better than homosexual. That in some way, the fundamental right of marraige is afforded only to the “superior” sexual orientation. That being staight is better than being gay.

I read in another post that one of the reasons this is such an emotional issue is the fact that people need some sort of recognition. I could not agree more. I think actually having a relationship, actually being completly 100 percent in love with someone changes your mind and chalenges your beliefs a great deal. I could not express in words how much I love my partner. I am proud of it and not ashamed of our relationship at all! It kills me that I cannot legaly take that next step in our relationship and be granted the same rights and privileges of any straight person because of such a homophobic society.

😯 I have no idea what to say.

I’m sorry you feel that after posting on this forum a few weeks and knowing me for all of five minutes you feel you can make presumptions about my life and my past. I am not in denial. I do not affirm my sexuality but I do accept that it’s there. I have spent the better part of a year trying to get people to realize that denying your sexuality is not only fruitless but harmful (ask anyone at the church that tried to kick me out why they wanted to and thats the reason they will give). There is a gulf between accepting that something exists and looking to deal with it and affirming and approving of its existence.

I don’t know whether you meant to insinuate that obviously I haven’t been in love if my views haven’t done a complete 180 and if that love for another person hasn’t usurped my beliefs about the bible then it wasn’t ‘true love’. If that is what you are saying then you have no idea what you are talking about. You climb a slippery slope when you start psycho-analyzing people you barely know.

Next time I would appreciate it if you left your personal assumptions about my character out of your posts, this is not the place for it.

Sandy,

I am so very sorry if I offended you. 🙁 I am not trying to psyco analyze who you are, your right, I dont know you. I dont know your past or your relationships or anything like that. This is just a subject that I can tend to get emotional about, and I appologize whole heartedly if I came across as making any assumptions about you that I had no place to make.

I guess what I am having a hard time trying to understand is your view on homosexuality as a whole. To me it doesnt make any sense. Either your gay or your straight.

You said

I do not affirm my sexuality but I do accept that it’s there.

To me thats like saying “I do not affirm that I am a caucasian man, but I do accept that my skin color is white and I have been born a male”

Its like your saying, yes Im a lesbian, I am attracted to women, but I dont agree with who I am. Its like your admitting and denying something in the same sentence.

There is a gulf between accepting that something exists and looking to deal with it and affirming and approving of its existence

.

How can you say that you accept your own sexuality and then turn around and say that you dont agree with yourself???

I guess what Im saying is, if your gay……your gay. I understand your argument of erring on the side of caution. This will be your amunition on the day of judgement. “See Lord? I may have been gay, but I didnt do any thing that those other gay people did. I didnt have a girlfriend, or have sex or get married to a woman. Nope not me! So were straight right?”

The thing with that is, when it all boils down to it, your still gay. You could spend your whole life denying your self everything and for what? God’s still gonna know that you liked girls your whole life.

What you are saying is, just incase being gay is evil and detestble in the sight of God, then I am not going to participate in any avenue of homosexuality that way when its my turn to be judged Ill have a clean slate. Isnt that kind of hypocritical though?

you said,

I have spent the better part of a year trying to get people to realize that denying your sexuality is not only fruitless but harmful (ask anyone at the church that tried to kick me out why they wanted to and thats the reason they will give).

If being gay is as sinful as you fear it to be then your already in trouble with God now anyways.

Im not saying that if you are in a relationship it makes you any more less of a person. Please dont think that I was trying to offend you or attack you in any way. Its just that your stance on being gay in general seems to have two sides. Please correct me if Im wrong, this is just how Im reading into the posts of yours that Ive read.

Thanks Anthony! I plan to!! 😀