Student in Berlin

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Joined in 2008
May 9, 2009, 14:15

Hi Alex, Wie geht’s dir?

Welcome to Freedom2b[e] and thanks for sharing your story with us. I agree with Anthony when he says he goes to church and BE’s without any agenda etc. I’m sure God will lead you in the right direction and that the decisions you make will be the best for you.

Joined in 2008
May 9, 2009, 23:31

I have to agree with avb here. I think many gay people are way too obsessed with getting fully accepted. Let me explain what I mean by that. (This next bit is not directed at you Alex, but just to the people who have this attitude that bothers me so much.) I understand you’re gay. I’m gay myself. But life is not about how gay you are. Honestly, our faith in Christ is more important than our sexual orienation. I totally agree with Anthony – the most important thing you can do is just be gay and good. I understand what the group leader meant and I kind of agree – this is not a group that meets to talk about homosexuality, this is a group that meets to talk about Christ. I feel like many gay Christians believe that in order for a Christian group to be beneficial to them it needs to be totally accepting of them, and I don’t believe that is true. I mean, I think it is totally wrong to reject a gay person regardless of what you believe, but that is not what I’m talking about here. I mean the people who believe homosexuality is wrong, but still love you anyway and still treat you like a friend. Most of my friends fall into that category. I think that gay people need to show some more mercy and understanding towards those who do not agree with us on issues of orientation. They are in a very difficult position as well and we need to also recognize where they are coming from and what they are trying to do. Again, the thing that Anthony said that is so right, arguing is not the point. People may not believe what you say, but they will always believe what you do. If you show them with your actions that gay people can be Christians who love God just as much as your straight brethren, then you have done enough.

Sorry if that wasn’t related to you. Sometimes I rant. 🙁 To directly answer your questions.

My opinion – yes, go. They sound welcoming enough and I’m sure you can be a good influence on them.

Happiness – Happiness is not about how much other people accept you. When we make it about that, we set ourselves up for disaster. Your happiness should be rooted in God. If you are making your goal here to serve God and do what He wants, I have no doubt that God will also provide happiness. There may be hard times, but if Paul was able to rejoice in prison, I’m sure we gay Christians could be able to find happiness and joy when people don’t treat us right.

Coming out – If you believe that you can handle it emotionally, I say go for it. You never know who you could help. Do it with the right attitude and the right goals and you should be okay.

Well, Alex, I guess I’m sorry for the length of MY post. Hehe. God bless. Will be praying for you. 🙂

Joined in 2009
May 10, 2009, 07:18

Hey guys,

thanks for your many answers and your supportive attitude!

I found the freedom2b Forum through Google. Unfortunately, it took quite long to register here as I had to ask the admin to activate my account.

But here’s what I really wanted to say:

Thank you avb and gettingthere for your advice on the issue of ‘being accepted’. As I am new to this problem, I thought a good church for me personally could only be one where all people think that it’s perfectly okay to be gay. This belief was rather in the back of my head instead of being a motto or something like that. Thanks for showing me that it doesn’t have to be so.

I also think it is very important to accept the people who don’t think it’s okay for me to be gay. After all, I don’t think somebody should ask for acceptance in the first place without accepting other people who have a different opinion as well.

I also liked the fact that avb said that he already lives a life of service so he doesn’t have a problem with not having a leading position in church. I don’t actually have an aspiration of leadership in the church, but I thought it would be essential for me if I could at least do some kind of service/ministry. But it’s true that serving is not just happening within the walls of the church. So this shouldn’t be a problem at all in the big picture.

By the way, I just bought a copy of “A Life Of Unlearning” at Amazon.DE.



Joined in 2006
May 10, 2009, 09:00

Sorry it took so long for you to get approved for registration but we were going through a period of admin. transition at the time. 8)

I agree with gettingthere, give it a go and see what happens. Im open in a mixed atmosphere church, some are “normal” with me others treat me like I have swine flu or something 😆 , at arms length affection and greetings or just avoidance but i still go because i love the worship, sermons and for the sake of a few compared to the many who are ok with me why should i leave 😉

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
May 10, 2009, 21:45

hi stryfoam

one thing we can add to this discussion I think is the timetable we are working on.

we need to remind ourselves the concept of a gay christian is a new one. Some people have got there others are in the questionning stage and others haven’t even begun the journey. this is true not only for individuals but also for churches and denominations.

it takes a great deal of wisdom to handle each situation.

if you are entering a church congregation I think the best thing to do is to check with leadership to see where the church is on the journey. You don’t even have to disclose your sexual orientation at this stage.

the biggest thing that will break down the walls is by us just being a normal committed member of the congregation. If we make our sexual orientation the issue….then it becomes the issue…..and possibly that is not why where are there.

Joined in 2008
May 10, 2009, 23:14

Hi Alex,

Regarding coming out to your current church, the Holy Spirit lives in you and is gently leading you in the right path. He has already revealed His love and acceptance for you personally and that will give you the strength and resilience to bear any persecution you face from others.

If you fellowship with Him and listen to His still small voice He will give you wisdom and words that will lift you into a place of personal integrity but also give grace to the hearer. He is our comforter, our counselor and our defender. He will tell you exactly what to say to exactly the right person in a way that is loving and anointed, not defensive or attacking.

My advice: “Be gentle”, follow the Holy Spirit’s wisdom and trust the anointing to defend you. If people can see Jesus in your eyes and feel the presence of God on you, they may disagree with you, but can’t deny the grace they will sense on you.

Read Acts 10. In Acts 10 the very straight church leader Peter was convinced that God accepted and called clean the Gentiles by faith without the law because they were God-fearing and filled with the Holy Spirit. You love and fear God, so if you will allow the Holy Spirit to fill you He will lead and defend you Himself against the modern-day pharisees and Judaizers who may see you as unclean. Let the Holy Spirit defend you.

Regarding the Hillsong-Berlin church, I agree with others here. Its not necessary that others accept you, but it is important to be joined to people God is calling you to be connected with.

I think its important for your own personal walk with God that you allow God to free you from your own emotional hurts and insecurities. The Word, the Holy Spirit and anointed GLBT men and women such as Anthony via F2B and the book, Ben, Magsdee, others on the forum, Pastor Sandy Turnbull of Glory Tabernacle and others can really help with that, but it doesn’t mean you have to attend a gay church or a gay friendly church (unless that is how the Lord is leading you). You should attend a church God has connected you to and the Holy Spirit leads you to, regardless of whether they accept GLBT. Perhaps the Lord will use you as a light, to help new GLBT believers who come in to that church and get confused by people telling them they need to change. You can be a light to help and comfort them.

I live in Japan and last year, after a big fight with a pastor and feeling rejected I went to other churches on the attack. In that spirit I made a mistake I think. I went to a Hillsong-like church I really liked and enjoyed the service, and felt like the Lord wanted to use me to be a blessing to that ministry in some way, but I wrote a letter to the pastor coming out to them right at the start and telling them basically I am out, loud and proud, and of course their reaction was “well perhaps you may prefer to find another church?”. I felt I had been rejected again, but I think it was my approach that was all wrong. Instead of building friendships and relationships and letting people see the Lord in me first, all I said was basically “I am gay, you must accept me or else!”. I wasn’t lifting up the name of Jesus, just my own gayness.

Now the Lord seems to be turning things full circle. After healing my heart from the rejection (through Anthony’s book, Pastor Sandy Turnbull’s preaching online and doing a bible course via the ACTS bible school online) I have begun connecting with that same church again.

Today I shook the pastors hand and said genuinely with all my heart how much I was blessed by him and the church. It was a miracle. I believe the Lord wants anointed, happy and confident GLBT in every large anointed powerful church, to be a light for new gay believers and to show the leaders that Jesus is alive and well in GLBT people.

I know the leadership of the church I have again started attending still have issues, so I am not going to seek any kind of leadership there, but no-one can stop me or wants to stop me from loving people, leading people to the Lord, healing the sick and doing the ministry of Jesus out on the streets and bringing them into the church. New believers who get saved at the services who I know or can sense are gay I am following up and encouraging in their walk with the Lord so if they ever feel condemned they will have someone to talk to. I know I wish there was someone like that for me when I was struggling with these issues, so I want to be that light for others.

I am not ashamed of who I am and would rather wear a gay flag to every service, but I am slowly learning, thanks to Anthony and others, that if we really love people and want to see change it is all about the way we communicate and “cross-cultural” communication. And its all about fruit. If you have the fruit of the Spirit, flow in the gifts of the Spirit, have Jesus in your eyes, love people and bring people into God’s presence and love through your words and actions, no one deep down will really care if you are gay. Its not about you anyway. Its all about Him.


Joined in 2008
May 10, 2009, 23:39

Hey Rivers, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of your posts before… but yes, I totally agree with what you said also. If you start with a confrontational attitude, a confrontational atmosphere is what you will get. But if you start with a peaceful and accepting attitude, then a peaceful and accepting atmosphere will result. We’re not in any hurry when it comes to changing other people’s minds, that’s always a process. People who don’t accept you today may be your biggest supporters years from now. I for one have a friend who initially was upset about my orientation, but now she is such a big supporter of me, so don’t forget about that.

You seem like a very level-headed individual, Alex. I think you’re on the right path here. Just remember to keep your faith first. And you are right on with what you said about service. This could just be a sign that God wants you to be serving in some other faculty. Praying for you Alex, and keep us updated. Would love to know how this all works out.

Joined in 2008
May 10, 2009, 23:49


Hey Rivers, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of your posts before

Well check out my story from last year if you like.

If you start with a confrontational attitude, a confrontational atmosphere is what you will get. But if you start with a peaceful and accepting attitude, then a peaceful and accepting atmosphere will result.

This is so true. We reap what we sow. Let’s sow peace, acceptance (of people’s ignorance) and love and compassion for others (in and out of the church), and we will eventually reap the same.

Joined in 2008
May 11, 2009, 00:11

Well check out my story from last year if you like.

Heh, I went and found it and then came back here and saw you put a link to it. lol.

I feel like I need to add something else to justify making a new post, so I shall.

Also, does the fact that I’m not supposed to ask about homosexuality mean something like “don’t ask – don’t tell”. After all, the orientation is a quite important thing in somebody’s life.

That is not what it means, I don’t think. Actually, I don’t believe this group would have any problem with you being out (and might even come to appreciate it), they just don’t want you being argumentative or militant. Which is very understandable. People who constantly argue can melt away all the harmony in a group and I think that’s more of what they are getting at.

Although I have no idea why they wrote “Self effort/focus always leads to humanism and the achievemnets of man.” I’m thinking they believe your question was self-centered, which is odd, because it’s a totally fair question. Well, that sentence still bothers me because it seems like it would reveal something important about the attitude of this church but I can’t figure out why it’s in there. You got any ideas, Alex?

Joined in 2006
May 11, 2009, 07:58

Instead of building friendships and relationships and letting people see the Lord in me first, all I said was basically “I am gay, you must accept me or else!”. I wasn’t lifting up the name of Jesus, just my own gayness.

Rivers, so good to hear from you 😀 , its been ages, so cool youre doing a course, wanting to do one myself.

It is so true, so important that we build f’ships and r’ships, I did that myself, I got hit and misses but at least they could see that I loved the Lord and although I wasnt in direct ministry, I could still minister when the occassion arose and “surprise surprise” still be led by the Holy Spirit 😉

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