It is quite well known that the Sydney diocese is probably the most conservative branch in Australia. Obviously they oppose same sex marriage, consecration of gay and female bishops. Recently Peter Jenson the Archbishop of Sydney was not present at the consecration of the state’s first female bishop in Goulburn.

I grew up in the Sydney inner west area and my religious faith has its roots ingrained in the conservative evangelical tradition.

Many churches from this branch firmly hold the belief that being gay is a sin and is usually lumped together with pornography addiction and ‘sexual brokenness’. This made coming out to family and friends quite a mission for me and also educating them about sexual diversity.

Now that I have pretty much unscrewed most of the firm bolts of my conservative beliefs I’m just wondering has anyone been exposed to the theology being preached by Sydney anglicans and anyone been in a similar situation? If so then what are your thoughts on this?

Cheers

Stanley

Hi Stanley,

I have indeed been part of the Sydney Anglican church and more recently a similarly conservative evangelical church in Sydney for over twenty years.

You can if interested, read more of my story on this site – however – put simply, I can well relate to being around Christians and exposed to teaching that applies a literal interpretation to the Bible and is absolute in its teaching that "homosexuality" is a sin. I have heard Jensen preach a number of times!!

For most of these years I did not myself identify as being gay – although was always reasonably upfront about my struggle with the church teaching about same sex relationships – having grown up with a lesbian sister.

In the last year or so I have been through my own journey – finally coming out to myself and confiding in a Bible study leader (from an evangelical church). Her response – while I still think was spoken out of concern and care – and was respectful in some ways – led me to make the decision to leave the church. I decided that I could not subject myself to the possibility of hearing about "homosexuality as a sin" right when I was trying to come to terms with my own journey around sexuality. I made what was a tough decision – yet has ultimately been a decsion which I know God had a hand in and which continues to bless me in more ways than I could have ever imagined.

I have been attending for about 6 months a Uniting church – progressive in its theology to say the very least. It has been like I am an alien visiting another planet. I jokingly refer to some of the services as being like an evangelical de-programming 101" class for me!!!

My mind has been on a complete roller coaster – I am unravelling, deconstructing and then reconstructing a number of long held theological understandings. And yet – I have been able to tentatively come out to a few people in the church – amazing! I am cared for and accepted. I truly feel that its a place where I can see the love of Jesus in action. It's hard at times – I am still really yet to deal with some of the people I have left behind from my old church. I have been blessed by the people on this site. I have also been given some very good reading matter – can share some ideas if you like. Feel free to ask me any more questions if there are any specific issues you are facing. I am by no means an expert – I am very new to all of this myself – and still muddling through – but my thoughts are with you as you navigate this "living between two worlds" thingo!

All the best, Sarab

Ah, Stanza – you raise a challenging issue. There is no doubt that Sydney Anglicanism does take a particularly dogmatic approach to many issues. And there is a uniformity which is almost a bit frightening in its application. Any lowly Rector or layperson who questions the ‘party line’ seems to cop it. Meaning others are too scared to speak up. I don’t want to be judgemental, but there’s an old saying: “those who claim the most truth, show the least grace”. The hyper-intellectual approach to interpreting scripture can blind one to the pastoral realities. (Some wags have suggested that Sydney Anglicans have a different Holy Trinity: ‘Father, Son & Holy Scripture’!!) Ironically, I am comfortable with much of WHAT they teach (other than same-sex issues) even if sometimes uncomfortable with HOW they teach.

I believe that many of their influential bods (and, of course, they are all male) have painted themselves into a corner with their fixed/locked-in interpretations. It would take an enormous act of humility and bravery to buck the system and say, “well, just maybe there is another way of looking at these texts” ? (The verses allegedly about homosexuality.) And naturally ‘male pride’ also gets in the way. (Being a male, I know all about male pride!)

There is a small, but growing, band of evangelical pastors and theologians around the world who either are seriously questioning the established interpretations and understandings, or have actually concluded that the long-held evangelical/conservative views (re homosexuality) are incorrect. (Same process has previously happened with slavery, mixed-race marriages, women wearing hats in church, etc., etc.) Some of these new interpretations are documented in our resources section or in various links within the Forum pages.

When I hear an anti-gay rant from Christians (even a tiny throwaway line), and especially from pastors (including Sydney Anglican heavyweights), my first reaction is to pray under my breath: “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do”. Most speak out of ignorance. And from the intellect, with little pastoral heart. They have usually swallowed what they were taught (years before), or only ever read anti-gay (so-called) Christian literature. I am reassured by the knowledge that ALL of us will answer to God for our words and actions (and lack thereof).

I attend an evangelical church. (Different denomination – although Sydney Anglicanism pervades the whole evangelical church in Sydney.) Although not affirming, I rarely hear negative comments made. And that usually gives me an opening to quietly feed an alternative view, or the possibility that there is one, into the mix. It’s a slow process, but I feel called to be there – and must, therefore, obey! I am comfortable with saying, “I don’t agree with everything that’s said” and “I have to disagree with you”.

Generally, affirming/pro-LGBTI churches tend to be more towards the liberal end of the church. My staunchly conservative Christian background makes it very hard to feel at home at that other end of the theological spectrum – the forms and thought-processes just don’t gel. (As Sarab suggests, it’s an alien experience.) Despite my best efforts, somehow God doesn’t get through to me there!

More than most, it is LGBTI Christians (out or not-yet-out) in those dogmatic Conservative churches which need the help which freedom2b gives. There are many of us here with similar backgrounds and we are all at various stages on ‘the journey’ (of self-acceptance and reconciliation). Let's continue to help each other.

Hi Stanza

My earliest church life experiences were in Sydney anglican churches and I am now in the rather weird position if seeing people I have been friends with for years being described as "outstanding candidate for bishop" to which I usually think- "really- you are that desperate?". But I digress- I parted company with my then church because I knew I was called to preach and my then rector explained I was wrong beucasue I was a woman and clearly God could not have called me- so I hustled off to the salvos and got myself ordained.

I vacillated between anglican churches and pentecostal ones (famnoulsy going to Barneys at night and CLC darlinghurst in the morning to encompass everything I thought I needed).

I thnk it is hard to grown up in Syndey, be a christian, and not have some exposure to Sydney Anglicans. I think the next 5 years will be very interesting as the Jensens retire (thirty years of influence on ideas there- as one wag joked to me during the 80s and 90s- Phil got them saved and called, Peter got them trained and ordained) and as the cohort in their 40s take on leadership. There are some good men there who I think are open to dialogue, but feel constrained by the current culture (at leats one of whom i reckon would make a great bishop)

A

Quote from forestgrey on April 12, 2012, 11:59 pm

There is a small, but growing, band of evangelical pastors and theologians around the world who either are seriously questioning the established interpretations and understandings, or have actually concluded that the long-held evangelical/conservative views (re homosexuality) are incorrect. (Same process has previously happened with slavery, mixed-race marriages, women wearing hats in church, etc., etc.) Some of these new interpretations are documented in our resources section or in various links within the Forum pages.

What's interesting is pastors who hold these different opinions on sexuality and same sex marriage will be labelled as false prophets. I went to a Baptist church which supported same sex marriage (at the moment the only Baptist church in NSW that does) and the pastor said that he would get a tirade emails from conservatives accusing him of being a false prophet and not being faithful to the Scriptures. It's no wonder that many leaders have quite a reserved stance on this very sensitive issue.

In my opinion people it is always healthy to questions certain topics in the bible as it allows people to understand and expand their knowledge and understanding of certain concepts that may have been overlooked in the past.

From what I can say about sexuality and the bible: 'God is never wrong only our understanding of this subject has been wrong' . Of course conservatives disagree and say that their understanding is from the Word of God and that is NEVER wrong.

Generally, affirming/pro-LGBTI churches tend to be more towards the liberal end of the church. My staunchly conservative Christian background makes it very hard to feel at home at that other end of the theological spectrum – the forms and thought-processes just don’t gel. (As Sarab suggests, it’s an alien experience.) Despite my best efforts, somehow God doesn’t get through to me there!

I totally where you are coming from. Liberal Christians are generally gay affirming but most of them disagree with the basic Christianity…