a short answer hmmmm ……..

looking at it biblically – there are many things the bible will not say about a person’s life because it was not imperative

David and Johnathan, they had an interesting relationship …..

Was every Eunuch castrated?????????

would i dare mention John and how he loved to lay his head on Jesus’ chest ……….

(no one stone me now)

Adam and Eve – does your friend agree or disagree with divorce under certain circumstances – going on their argument using Adam and Eve (man and woman) then divorce must be totally out of the question

Christian teaching as in other religions too i guess, take a big amount of liberties – they read what they want between the lines, with what suits them – but they feel uncomfortable when someone finds something elsewhere in the bible that does not match their ideas.

It is general practice taught at bible college that one gets ‘teaching/doctrine/principle’ from 2 preferably 3 different areas in the bible

(that is taught in mainstream charismatic and pentecostal bible colleges, not freedom2b(e) bible college)

so Adam and Eve – they need a bit more strength to their argument than just that going on mainstream principles

not to mention the fact, using this argument on its own, they are in agreement with incest (sounds silly, yes, but when I have had ‘discussions’ with christians once calling themselves my friends on validity or non validity of being a gay christian, they said we must take the bible literally, so i told them they are believers in incest, their wives should have their heads covered, they should not eat a pile of foods they all love to eat and the list goes on) they had no rebuttal.

Normal is a cycle on my washing machine.

Now where have I heard that quote before 😆 😆 😆

Yep, for someone to say that the Genesis creation story is the “be all and end all” displays a certain level of ignorance about the complexities of societal living … in my opinion one can’t take that account in itself as the definitative line …

Great question!

I have found that sharing the huge number of species who have homosexual sex is often helpful as that tends th break down the idea of what is “Natural” being Heterosexual.

Pen xxx

I really like Anthonys comment about Animal sexual activity. Here is an article i found interesting that may help in response.

ASorry about the list lenght, but it just adds to the message 😉

Homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom (and other non-human species)

BornGayProCon.org

The 1999 book by Bruce Bagemihl, Ph.D. (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1999, Publisher’s Weekly “Best Book of 1999”), “Biological Exuberance, Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity,” states that homosexual and/or transgender activity has been observed in “over 450 species.” He states in his book’s introduction:

“Any book on homosexuality and transgender in animals is necessarily unfinished, a work in progress. The subject is so vast, the types of behaviors so varied, and the number of species involved so large, as to defy any attempts at comprehensiveness. And the scientific research in this area is only in its infancy: new developments and discoveries are continually being made, and the extent of uncharted and as yet unknowable terrain is so great as to render any attempt at completeness hopelessly premature.”

His book states that, as of 1999, homosexual and/or transgender behavior has been observed in the following 478 species:

..>

..> Homosexual / Transgender Species

Acanthocephalan Worms

Acorn Woodpecker

Adelie Penguin

African Buffalo

African Elephant

Agile Wallaby

Alfalfa Weevil

Amazon Molly

Amazon River Dolphin

American Bison

Anna’s Humminbird

Anole sp.

Aoudad

Aperea

Appalachian Woodland Salamander

Asiatic Elephant

Asiatic Mouflon

Atlantic Spotted Dolphin

Australian Parasitic Wasp sp.

Australian Sea Lion

Australian Shelduck

Aztec Parakeet

Bank Swallow

Barasingha

Barbary Sheep

Barn Owl

Bean Weevil sp.

Bedbug and other Bug spp.

Beluga

Bangalese Finch (Domestic)

Bezoar

Bharal

Bicolored Antbird

Bighorn Sheep

Black Bear

Black-billed Magpie

Blackbuck

Black-crowned Night Heron

Black-footed Rock Wallaby

Black-headed Gull

Black-rumped Flameback

Black-spotted Frog

Black Stilt

Blackstripe Topminnow

Black Swan

Black-tailed Deer

Black-winged Stilt

Blister Beetle spp.

Blowfly

Blue-backed Manakin

Blue-bellied Roller

Bluegill Sunfish

Blue Sheep

Blue Tit

Blue-winged Teal

Bonnet Macaque

Bonobo

Boto

Bottlenose Dolphin

Bowhead Whale

Box Crab

Bridled Dolphin

Broad-headed Skink

Broadwinged Damselfly sp.

Brown Bear

Brown Capuchin

Brown-headed Cowbird

Brown Long-eared Bat

Brown Rat

Budgeriger (Domestic)

Buff-breasted Sandpiper

Rush Dog

Cabbage (Small) White

Calfbird

California Gull

Canada Goose

Canary-winged Parakeet

Caribou

Caspian Tern

Cat (Domestic)

Cattle (Domestic)

Cattle Egret

Chaffinch

Char

Checkered Whiptail Lizard

Checkerspot Butterfly

Cheetah

Chicken (Domestic)

Chihuahuan Spotted Whiptail Lizard

Chiloe Wigeon

Cliff Swallow

Clubtail Dragonfly spp.

Cockroach spp.

Collared Peccary

Cammerson’s Dolphin

Common Ameiva

Common Brushtail Possum

Common Chimpanzee

Common Dolphin

Common Garter Snake

Common Gull

Common Marmoset

Common Murre

Common Pipistrelle

Common Racoon

Common Shelduck

Common Skimmer Dragonfly spp.

Common Tree Shrew

Cotton-top Tamarin

Crab-eating Macaque

Crane spp.

Creeping Water Bug sp.

Crested Black Macaque

Cuban Green Anole

Cui

Dall’s Sheep

Daubenton’s Bat

Desert Grassland Whiptail Lizard

Desert Tortoise

Digger Bee

Dog (Domestic)

Doria’s Tree Kangaroo

Dragonfly spp.

Dugong

Dusky Moorhen

Dwarf Cavy

Dwarf Mongoose

Eastern Bluebird

Eastern Cottontail Rabbit

Eastern Giant Ichneumon

Eastern Gray Kangaroo

Egyptian Goose

Elegant Parrot

Elk

Emu

Eucalyptus Longhorned Borer

Euro

European Bison

European Bitterling

European Jay

European Shag

Fallow Deer

False Killer Whale

Fat-tailed Dunnart

Fence Lizard

Field Cricket sp.

Fin Whale

Five-lined Skink

Flamingo

Fruit Fly spp.

Galah

Gelada Baboon

Gentoo Penguin

Giraffe

Glasswing Butterfly

Goat (Domestic)

Golden Bishop Bird

Golden Monkey

Golden Plover

Gopher (Pine) Snake

Gorilla

Grant’s Gazelle

Grape Berry Moth

Grape Borer

Gray-breasted Jay

Gray-capped Social Weaver

Gray-headed Flying Fox

Gray Heron

Grayling

Gray Seal

Gray Squirrel

Gray Whale

Great Cormorant

Greater Bird of Paradise

Greater Rhea

Green Anole

Green Lacewing

Green Sandpiper

Greenshank

Green Swordtail

Greylag Goose

Griffon Vulture

Grizzly Bear

Guiana Leaffish

Guianan Cock-of-the-Rock

Guillemot

Guinea Pig (Domestic)

Hamadryas Baboon

Hammerhead

Hamster (Domestic)

Hanuman Lanur

Harbor Porpoise

Harbor Seal

Harvest Spider sp.

Hawaiin Orb-Weaver

Hen Flea

Herring Gull

Himalayan Tahr

Hoary-headed Grebe

Hoary Marmot

Hooded Warbler

Horse (Domestic)

House Fly

House Sparrow

Houting Whitefish

Humboldt Penguin

Ichneumon Wasp sp.

Incirrate Octopus spp.

Inagua Curlytail Lizard

Indian Fruit Bat

Indian Mantjac

Indian Rhinoceros

Ivory Gull

Jackdaw

Jamaican Giant Anole

Japanese Scarab Beetle

Japanese Macaque

Javelina

Jewel Fish

Jumping Spider sp.

Kangaroo Rat

Kestrel

Killer Whale

King Penquin

Kittiwake

Koala

Kob

Larch Bud Moth

Laredo Striped Whiptail Lizard

Larga Seal

Largehead Anole

Large Milkweed Bug

Large White

Laughing Gull

Laysan Albatross

Least Chipmunk

Least Darter

Lechwe

Lesser Bushbaby

Lesser Flamingo

Lesser Scaup Duck

Lion

Lion-tailed Macaque

Lion Tamarin

Little Blue Heron

Little Brown Bat

Little Egret

Livingstone’s Fruit Bat

Long-eared Hedgehog

Long-footed Tree Shrew

Long-legged Fly spp.

Long-tailed Hermit Hummingbird

Mallard Duck

Markhor

Marten

Masked Lovebird

Matschie’s Tree Kangaroo

Mazarine Blue

Mealy Amazon Parrot

Mediterranean Fruit Fly

Mew Gull

Mexican Jay

Mexican White

Midge sp.

Migratory Locust

Mite sp.

Moco

Mohol Galago

Monarch Butterfly

Moor Macaque

Moose

Mountain Dusky Salamander

Mountain Goat

Mountain Tree Shrew

Mountain Zebra

Mourning Gecko

Mouse (Domestic)

Mouthbreeding Fish sp.

Mule Deer

Mustached Tamarin

Musk Duck

Musk-ox

Mute Swan

Narrow-winged Damselfly spp.

Natterer’s Bat

New Zealand Sea Lion

Nilgiri Langur

Noctule

North American Porcupine

Northern Elephant Seal

Northern Fur Seal

Northern Quoll

Ocellated Antbird

Ocher-bellied Flycatcher

Olympic Marmot

Orange Bishop Bird

Orange-footed Parakeet

Orangutan

Orca

Ornate Lorikeet

Ostrich

Oystercatcher

Pacific Striped Dolphin

Parsnip Leaf Miner

Patas Monkey

Peach-faced Lovebird

Pere David’s Deer

Pied Flycatcher

Pied Kingfisher

Pig (Domestic)

Pigeon (Domestic)

Pig-tailed Macaque

Plains Zebra

Plateau Striped Whiptail Lizard

Polar Bear

Pomace Fly

Powerful Owl

Prea

Pretty-faced Wallaby

Proboscis Monkey

Pronghorn

Przewalski’s Horse

Pukeko

Puku

Purple Swamphen

Pygmy Chimpanzee

Queen Butterfly

Quokka

Rabbit (Domestic)

Raccoon Dog

Raggiana’s Bird of Paradise

Rat (Domestic)

Raven

Razorbill

Red Ant sp.

Red-backed Shrike

Red Bishop Bird

Red Deer

Red Diamond Rattlesnake

Red-faced Lovebird

Red Flour Beetle

Red Fox

Red Kangaroo

Red-necked Wallaby

Redshank

Red-shouldered Widowbird

Red Squirrel

Red-tailed Skink

Reeve’s Muntjac

Regent Bowerbird

Reindeer

Reindeer Warble Fly

Rhesus Macaque

Right Whale

Ring-billed Gull

Ring Dove

Rock Cavy

Rock Dove

Rodrigues Fruit Bat

Roe Deer

Roseate Cockatoo

Roseate Tern

Rosechafer

Rose-ringed Parakeet

Rove Beetle spp.

Ruff

Ruffed Grouse

Rufous Bettong

Rufous-naped Tamarin

Rufous Rat Kangaroo

Saddle-back Tamarin

Sage Grouse

Salmon spp.

San Blas Jay

Sand Martin

Satin Bowerbird

Savanna Baboon

Scarab Beetle, Melolonthine

Scarlet Ibis

Scottish Crossbill

Screwworm Fly

Sea Otter

Senegal Parrot

Serotine Bat

Sharp-tailed Sparrow

Sheep (Domestic)

Siamang

Side-blotched Lizard

Sika Deer

Silkworm Moth

Silver Gull

Silvery Grebe

Slender Tree Shrew

Snow Goose

Sociable Weaver

Sooty Mangabey

Southeastern Blueberry Bee

Southern Green Stink Bug

Southern Masked Chafer

Southern One-Year Canegrub

Southern Platyfish

Speckled Rattlesnake

Sperm Whale

Spinifex Hopping Mouse

Spinner Dolphin

Spotted Hyena

Spotted Seal

Spreadwinged Damselfly spp.

Spruce Budworm Moth

Squirrel Monkey

Stable Fly sp.

Stag Beetle spp.

Steller’s Sea Eagle

Striped Dolphin

Stuart’s Marsupial Mouse

Stumptail Macaque

Superb Lyrebird

Swallow-tailed Manakin

Swamp Deer

Swamp Wallaby

Takhi

Talapoin

Tammar Wallaby

Tasmanian Devil

Tasmanian Native Hen

Tasmanian Rat Kangaroo

Tengger Desert Toad

Ten-spined Stickleback

Thinhorn Sheep

Thomson’s Gazelle

Three-spined Stickleback

Tonkean Macaque

Tree Swallow

Trumpeter Swan

Tsetse Fly

Tucuxi

Turkey (Domestic)

Urial

Vampire Bat

Verreaux’s Sifaka

Vervet

Victoria’s Riflebird

Vicuna

Walrus

Wapiti

Warthog

Water Boatman Bug

Waterbuck

Water Buffalo

Water Moccasin

Water Strider spp.

Wattled Starling

Weeper Capuchin

Western Gray Kangaroo

Western Gull

Western Rattlesnake

West Indian Manatee

Western Banded Gecko

Whiptail Lizard spp.

Whiptail Wallaby

White-faced Capuchin

White-fronted Amazon Parrot

White-fronted Capuchin

White-handed Gibbon

White-lipped Peccary

White Stork

White-tailed Deer

Wild Cavy

Wild Goat

Wisent

Wolf

Wood Duck

Wood Turtle

Yellow-backed (Chattering) Lorikeet

Yello-footed Rock Wallaby

Yellow-rumped Cacique

Yellow-toothed Cavy

Zebra Finch (Domestic)

Hi there

Yeah great response AVB!

Not everything is about creation and reproduction. I mean the creation story obviously is, and given that sperm and eggs are needed for that, having a male and female present is the easist way to demonstrate growth. So, especially in those times when they weren’t using IVF or turkey basters, I agree, homosexuality in the context of reproduction wouldn’t make sense. But then a lot of things about the literal meaning of that story don’t make sense. The incest reference is one of them. It’s funny how creationist Christians can excuse/forget that one but they can’t get past homosexuality!!

Using the examples of homosexual animal species is nice since God created them and saw they were good. Christians can’t really argue that these are mutations since creationists don’t tend to believe in evolution!

And genesis can’t and doesn’t explain other complexities like the male and female sides in each of us (Jung’s anima and animus, for instance) and yet I think those are valuable bits of psychological theory. So in a sense we are not just 100% male or 100% female. There are many variations within.

And sea horses. I didn’t see them on the list of animals . I think from memory the males carry the babies too?

Good topic. Hope this all has helped.

All the best,

Ann Maree