Hey everyone, this is my first ever post… just discovered the site today!

As the subject suggests, I'm in a complicated situation. I'm in my late 20s, and am in quite a visible position within a large and influential pentecostal church. I have released alot of worship music in several different churches plus my own albums etc, and was a worship pastor for several years… talk about pressure! I feel like I have so many people who look up to me and are counting on the example I set.

Then in 'opposition' to this, as I've always believed to be the case until now, I am incredibly attracted to other guys. Not *just* guys, mind you, but enough that I would feel like such a fraud to marry a woman and pretend that whole side of who I am did not exist. Enough that I feel that I'm hiding a big whopping secret. But I have been open and honest with a number of people in my life, so it's not that much of a secret to the people closest to me. It's just not public knowledge as it's really no-one's business, in my opinion. Could I marry a woman? Sure. I am attracted enough to women that I believe I could be satisfied in a relationship (as I have been in the past), but so long as she was ok with my attraction to guys as well, and not threatened by it. I was in a long-term straight relationship that was heading towards marriage, but I broke it off because of other issues in the relationship… not because I wasn't attracted to her! That was a long time ago now, however, and I may have changed a lot since then.

I guess I'm coming to a place where for 10 years I suppressed, buried, prayed against, cried out in agony to God about, and was endlessly depressed and secretly suicidal about this whole aspect of my life. I had experiences with guys that were unfulfilling and largely damaging. I've also been put through damaging 'prayer counselling' as they called it. It was the biggest evil crock… Apparently after Jesus miraculously fixed me I then had to stop all my 'mannerisms'. Of which I had none because I'm not an effeminate kinda guy. Oh and I was forced to tell my parents all the explicit details of my sexual experiences with a guy in high school.

On the flipside I've even had periods of time where I genuinely felt very limited attraction towards guys and mainly towards women (my own little 'reparative therapy' helped with that I guess). But I'm at this point of being just so damn tired of the frustration and pain / guilt cycle of it all. I just want to be at peace with who I am.

A short while ago after many years of denying myself of any kind of relationship with anyone of the same sex I had 2 quite tame encounters with other Christian guys around my age that were unexpected (I didn't seek anything out). The first was awkward and uncomfortable and left me feeling happy to be living this straight identity. Yet the second… I found a level of intimacy, acceptance and joy just being close to this person. In this instance though it's not something that could become a real relationship as he does not identify as gay and is very much, in my opinion, in denial. But I felt GOOD. I felt happy. And I had not one ounce of guilt! What the ?!? A good friend and pastor I know (who is openly gay, but happily married with kids) said to me, "Maybe this means you are finally accepting who you really are." Now I don't think it's ok to be running around doing whatever you please with anyone. I believe that a loving, committed relationship is the best way to express and explore sexual desire. I was just at a crossroads and quite confused so I entertained these situations for better or worse. (In terms of accountability, which I believe is VITAL for personal direction, safety, guidance, support etc, I have shared this with a trusted pastor and friend.)

So this all brings me to the clincher… I see several options ahead of me:

1) Come out publicly. Accept that I will lose a vast majority of my ministry following, but will be able to minister more authentically and help others in my situation… or as one friend put it 'go and live wild and explore my new-found freedom'. Not sure I could be ok with that. I still love God too much to throw off all restraint.

2) Accept who I am wholeheartedly, but be selective about who I share this with. I see this as a choice of celibacy but not secrecy. But to be clear, I would happily share my struggles with anyone who asked, EVEN IF it compromised my ministry standing – in order to be integrous. Marry or don't marry… But I could not be in a relationship with another man even if I had feelings for someone. The guidelines for ministry within this church don't allow it. That'd suck, as it has in the past. But I accept that's the cost I'd have to be willing to pay. Heck it's not like I'd jump out of the closet and into a loving relationship. Maybe I'd give it all up for the right person. Hmm.

The main areas of scripture that really speak to me about this are where it talks about not being a stumbling block for others, and not knowingly bringing offense. I know this is a hugely 'offensive' issue to people in the church… just like eating food offered to idols was back in the day, so I'm ok with that. I don't want to be a 'give me my rights at any cost' bulldozer and start picketing the front gates of the church. There's too much of that stuff these days. Jesus told us to love others, not yell hate at them, even if they yelled first… AS we love ourselves. So yes, not being a doormat, but choosing to let my public actions be respectful towards others' beliefs and convictions (according to scripture). So walking into church with a man on my arms because that's my right is kinda not acting in love towards others. My private convictions are mine and mine alone.

Oh yes, option 3.

3) Bury the crap out of this thing and let it keep coming up in more and more unhealthy and destructive ways! Porn, dodgy encounters etc…

Now to make matters more interesting… I am meant to be leaving Australia shortly to help pioneer a church plant oversees and am TERRIFIED of the isolation and what it may do to me.

I'm interested to hear what people think… on things such as: Who do I tell? Who do I not tell?

People ask 'can you be a Christian and be gay?' My answer… 'sure, I've been doing it for 10 years. I just didn't know it!'

Seriously tho, I'm still just working this all out… but all I know is that I think some guys are hot. And I love Jesus. Why the hell is that such a big deal? (By the way, I say 'some' because, hell, as if a straight guy is attracted to EVERY woman on earth and every gay guy is attracted to EVERY guy. Seriously, even though the closest box I'd fit into is gay, I find some guys completely unattractive – ie Danny Devito, and some women totally breathtaking who make my heart skip a beat and I wanna marry them – ie Rachel Taylor. I confuse myself, honestly…)

Ah well… long-winded. I've had alot on my mind and not really anywhere to share it, so I hope you enjoyed the epic read!

Danno

Hi Danno,

Can I say it's amazing what you've shared. Firstly, you're not alone.

I personally gave my life to the Lord when I was 11, and I've been planted in the body of Christ ever since. I currently attend Jubilee Church in Waverley.

God wants you to live in integrity. If you're one of God's special children, who is gay, then be yourself. I've noticed in my many years being among my gay brothers in Christ, is that those who have come to acceptance of their sexuality, and live authentically, God prospers the most.

Your struggle with your sexuality is a liability, as Satan can at any time use it to destroy your works.

Before I came to acceptance of my own sexuality, I had determined within myself to not marry I woman. I just couldn't do it, neither to myself or to her. Sex is a pivotal part of God's plan for marriage, and the truth is, I could never fulfill that with a woman. It was at that point, that I said to myself, I will not be marrying a woman.

I've come to realise in recent months, that the church's stance against gay marriage is actually quite destructive. The reason being is that the only choice that the church offers gay men and women is to remain celibate. This is un-sustainable. What ends up happening (for most people) is that people live destructive lives, with dis-integrity. They show one face to the church, but they live destrictive lives behind closed doors (porn addictions, promiscuous hook ups etc).

I personally support marriage, and have determined myself to remain celibate until I get married (basically the same model the church uses with hetrosexuals of no sex before marriage). I personally find in my own life that it honours Christ and brings the best out in me.

God is doing amazing things in the gay community, and your timing is perfect. The gay revival is commencing, and it's an exciting time. God is doing incredibly things through the gay community including signs and wonders.

If you get a chance, read through my testimony. It's located here: http://www.freedom2b.org/forums/the-day-my-world-fell-apart—jd—32-m-t1111

I do hope you connect with us. We're the beautiful, colourful part of the fabric which is the body of Christ.

Cheers!

JD

Thanks Kathy 🙂 Much appreciated! I have a fantastic former senior pastor who is now a counsellor who is talking me through this whole process. I guess though it's just the being torn between two 'oppositional' worlds, which has always been my belief until now. Reconciling the two… Now that's a mission. Because somewhere along the line something has to be compromised in order to have true integrity. I guess people try to eliminate their sexual orientation so they can fit the life they've always dreamed of around that. Or make their life line up with what is 'normal'. I have had to let go of the 'need' to be married with kids etc. Whatever will happen will happen, but putting undue pressure on myself to be something I want to be as opposed to truly who I am is where I often fall down. Keeping up the act is exhausting.

Mate

You definitely do not need to give up the Kids idea – I have many Gay friends with Kids,

Some were asked to be the fathers and share the parenting. Some Adopted. Some Got married and told their wives they where gay but wanted kids (yes – believe it or not and they make GREAT dads)

I'm not recommending any of these – but I am saying I know plenty of Gay fathers (and theres a very strong Gay Fathers support group actually.

On a kinda related note I will also note that traditional church morality actually only works by carefully ignoring large chunks of the bible and mistranslating words.

I'm not recommending any particular interpretation and you Do need to follow you conscience on these matters – BUT if you wanted to look into this matter I would suggest never assume what is meant when the bible talks about fornication or immorality – because people often assume that means things like sex outside marriage etc – but there are strong arguments against those definitions…. and in fact reading the stories of Rachel and Tamar in the Old testament – two women – one who is a prostitute – and the other has sex with a man NOT her husband – who are declared Righteous and blessed. (so much so they are listed as ancestors of both King David and Jesus himself). So if sex outside marriage was a great sin – well – how can they be righteous ?

Solomon also – with God given wisdom – didnt condemn prostitutes either… and Jesus didnt like Adultery but didnt seem to mind prostitutes…. so there is some definite room for thought here.

Certainly the churches teaching that all sex outside marriage is simple and easy but it isnt actually biblical or correct (and in fact – marriage wasnt really defined as a true sacrament or legal thing until the church looked into the matter during the reformation and requested the governments to deal with it as it was not seen as a sacrament at that time so the question of what is biblical marriage is actually quite a complicated one – despite what the opponents of Gay marriage would like to have people believe)

Hey Danno, I haven't done anything anywhere near as much as what you have already accomplished, so I may not be of much help compared to what other amazing members on F2B can give you advice on, but I do think I can still offer something to the table here.

I've also been put through damaging 'prayer counselling' as they called it. It was the biggest evil crock…

I agree, prayer counselling sounds very similar to what I have heard ex-gay programs put people through, and trust me when I say they don't work. They instill a guilt trip inside of you promising they can change your sexual orientation, but one thing I have personally learnt in the last few years of my own self discovery is that this part of you cannot be changed no matter how much praying, counselling and whatever else you do. It took me many years to come to terms with this fact.

I'm interested to hear what people think… on things such as: Who do I tell? Who do I not tell?

For me personally, I have only told my parents. I need time to harness enough confidence to tell the rest of my family, but for now knowing my parents know that I am gay is relief enough. It's up to you, so only take my opinion as a grain of salt. I personally don't think I need to tell the whole world. I think when my whole family knows, I will be comfortable enough to tell others when and where appropriate, but a common theme among coming out advice is the fact that you don't have to tell the whole world because quite frankly it's none of their business 🙂 and even if people find out and out you, "those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter".

You mention you admire some good looking women. I personally think we all have a bit of "bisexual" in all of us. Heck, if I was straight I would definitely have posters of Charlize Theron (wow, stunner), Rihanna (she has great legs), Amanda Bynes, maybe Hilary Duff, and Emily Vancamp on my wall, but I am most definitely attracted physically AND emotionally to guys.

I feel like I have so many people who look up to me and are counting on the example I set

This is just my personal opinion so take this with a grain of salt also 🙂 since many people look up to you, perhaps your calling could be becoming an even greater role model to them by studying the context of the passages / scriptures in the bible and preaching the fact that God loves everyone just as they are? You could be the next Rob Buckingham! (brilliant pastor in my opinion). Here, these videos have helped me increase my knowledge and reality of the clobber passages in the bible and may help you:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5807AE407E57482E&feature=plcp

I hope that was of some help/use to you anyway! There is also http://www.gaychristian.net/index.php? which has a lot of helpful advice and A TON of members who have various backgrounds which may help you much more than what I can advise you on. It's great you've joined F2B, this place is indeed great.

God Bless,

Jordan