you are right Sandy however it makes a statement to me about that pastor that he does not KNOW his people going to his church. I will not make any more of a statement than that about that type of leader/pastor. There are many many many pastors like that. I really think those types/styles of churches should stop calling their leadership PASTOR. They plain and simply are not.

The guy was either incredibly naive or ridiculously stupid.

Just quietly, I don’t think people need to be naive or stupid to miss the fact that someone is gay. For people that have been immersed in the culture for years its far easier to pick but for straight people who live their lives in a Christian bubble I can understand why it would go unnoticed. While I guess its harder to justify in Darlinghurst lets face it, 5% of the population is gay, so chances are someone is NOT gay. For people to assume you are heterosexual isn’t all that crazy.

However, there is something to be said for seeing only what you want to see. I lived with my dad for over twenty years growing up and never once questioned his sexuality. Now, I can’t believe I missed all the “oh my God thats like, soooo gay” stuff that he does, stuff that he has been doing his whole life but I’ve only just realised its common amoung gay men.

if you knew some of the guys I’m speaking of Sandy you would understand how crazy it was. They are totally out………but don’t feel the need to talk about being gay at church. they are there for other reasons.

Believe it or not…..I passed for striaght for many years….. 😆 😆 😆 ….but it was constant monitoring of my voice my actions and how I dressed. Of course not all gay males have femine traits or all lesbian masculine and butch….that is just ignorance and stereotyping……i just know that today i’m not putting on act any more I’m being me…..an occasional screamer and flapper……. 😆 😆 ….or is that regular. 😳

*shugs* Ok, well I’m not going to argue though I still think its a harsh assessment. Sometimes not everything is about discimination or homophobia.

Oh i was not having a go at them from a homophobic point of view. Sorry, that was not what i was trying to say.

What i was trying to elude to was that many (particularly in pentecostal churches) pastors/leaders do not get to know their congregations. They have an elitist perspective, only know a few, and have others down the trail of leadership to know more and so forth. Now as your church grows this must take place. I am not saying this practice in itself is wrong. But as Anthony pointed out as with a particular church he knows about, so many of this type of church in Australia are concerned about only a few things. (This will sound harsh and bitter and judgemental, but remember i was once amongst this on a leadership level). Many churches/pastors/leaders care only about how much is in the offering, how many bums were on seats that sunday and how many ‘dedicated their hearts to God’ or ‘rededicated their hearts to God’. They do not look into people’s lives. They want microwave christians. They do not have the patience, the know how, or the care factor to go on a long journey with people in their congregation. They want instant results/instant changes in people’s lives. So for that pastor who did not realise he had any gays in his church is typical from a non caring perspective. Not a homophobic perspective, although perhaps that is apart of the problem but certainly not the only part of the problem. I use to go to state and national pastors conferences. At lunch, dinner etc i would sit amongst them all. This one day, a typical day and not the only time i heard such talk by any means, these 2 pastors were talking at our table. They had churches in neighbouring suburbs back in their home state/city. They began to talk about a particular family. They joked about them and one said to the other – ‘oh i got wind of them real quick, did not want them in my church so i sent them off to you.’ The other replied yeh you ‘ beeep beep, i know, but don’t worry, i sent them off to …such and such church.’ This is a common thing. I had a bit of a dig at them in a round about way. I commented to the whole table that i was amazed how our churches were becoming very darwinian in their theology. Someone asked what i meant and i said, ‘… Only the strong survive. So many pastors only seem interested in the strong coming to their churches. They do not want to be an actual pastor and love and care and help those that need help.’ I was not invited to sit at that table the next meal time…..

Two christmases ago, a pastor from the church i use to be on staff at rang me with a problem he had. A homeless man. They did not know what to do with him. I told this pastor, ‘how sad’ he said yes, ‘the govt needs to put up more mens shelters’ i said ‘no that is not what is sad’ he said ‘what do you mean?’ i said ‘you are a church of over 600 and your church is so pathetic that you have not got one family, not one single, capable adult male that can take in this man and put a mattress even in his garage for him. That is what is sad’. i told him to bring the man around to my place. He did. (more to the story, got quite funny in some ways, but that will do now for now). You see, people in that church are not encouraged to bring along such people. Not said from the pulpit but is said pastor to person. If they are too much ‘trouble’ a sly way is schemed to have them leave the church. (Fact, not my opinion)

There are many issues about churches in Australia, and perhaps around the world. Yes no one is perfect, certainly not me. But i do think there are some fundamental issues that the majority of churches are avoiding, and or have left on purpose which, if you go along with the bible being the Word of God, are quite clear about what are priorities.

This is a particular soap box of mine and why i resigned from ministry. As a result of that, my guard came down about my own life and …….. here i am. Out to those that ask …. and very happy in my soul …. finally.

This is where Terry, I do love much of the Catholic approach of many catholic people I know and met along the way, such a heart for the poor and down trodden. One Chaplain kind of guy I met in spinal rehab (catholic) was taking men into his own home, a big house, so about 5 men off the streets and helping them get it together and teaching them to save and share expenses, then when they were able they would go and be more self sufficient, it was great and there were quite a few homes like that in my old church too, its how the leadership started there, they were robbed many times but still continued for many years.

Sometimes I wonder about when or what the “great falling away” is the new testament talks about, I often wonder if its the very exposure of these things that will turn people off church, even from God because of these things that many people do, it isnt Gods fault but the association is often connected so out goes the baby.