Hi steveo

That's a tough one. I remember when my faith was majorly challenged, feeling like I was free falling with no soft landing. My world had been turned upside down and I didn't know which way was up. I was completely disoriented and felt like I wouldn't survive it. I'm wondering if you might relate with any of that.

You said:

So how does your faith go on. How do you restore faith, when the foundations of what you hold to be true have crumbled?

My heart goes out to you, steveo. In answer to your question, I think you start from ground zero and after a while you gradually build new foundations. But which foundations? It took a long time for me to work out and it was difficult. I was in shock and traumatised for a while because of the circumstances that occurred alongside my faith being turned upside down. You might say it was, in the words of Thomas Moore, "a dark night of the soul" experience. There was a period where I just had to be with those feelings of lostness as much as I didn't want to be and grieve for what was lost. I had to do that before I rebuilt and in the process I sought whatever supports I could find. It was very painful but even in that time of stumbling along like a wounded animal, the smallest kindnesses from strangers were like beacons to me and are with me still.

Things started to improve and I began to feel OK and to slowly build a new faith. It was a faith that was tentative and dynamic and more appreciative of uncertainty than the previous faith had been and it took a long period of adjusting to that, to feel comfortable with the new reality.

These days things are a lot simpler and I like to think I'm a better person for what I went through. I have more compassion for people than I did before and look for what will unify rather than separate. I am wary about becoming too attached to ideas or over-thinking matters around faith. We often make things complicated when they don't need to be. Listen to yourself and be true to who you are in the moment. Find new ways to love yourself and others. Loving yourself is so very important at all times but especially during this process. You will be fine – this is a new beginning even though my guess is that it's painful. All my love to you.

Blessings,

Ann Maree

Hey Steveo,

I think there are certainly moments in life where thoughts or things that have been said can make you doubt things. I myself have been angry at the fact that I cannot hear God. I hear of people being able to hear Him through whispers and what not, but I simply cannot. A while back, I normally would have fallen into my own self pity trap, *think* God was ignoring me, vote on it without questioning it, *believe* that thought, and then get angry at Him. But recently I have begun a new way of thinking after discovering Byron Katie (more info at the bottom of the page about her). I thought, you know what, I don't think God minds questions, but He is not to blame, and to question things, it can sometimes help you find a deeper faith (quote from 'Prayers for Bobby'). And I think it is vital to question things that you are unsure about, and go in search of answers.

When I was a kid, I was literally forced to go to church with my parents (I still remember the extremely loud christian music thumping in my ears as a child whilst colouring in things in my drawing book). There were some things I remember pastors preaching which I thought were a bit hypocritical of them saying, especially when they made homophobic remarks, yet told everyone to love thy neighbour (Well, from THEIR views, if being gay is sinful or whatever, what if your neighbour is gay? Do you not love them also?). Needless to say I found a LOT of hypocrisy in many of the mainstream churches. I suppose it was these hypocrisies that drove me to question everything I had ever learnt. Now I am always trying to find truth in everything, and I am not sure if any of the below will be helpful to you, but it has been for me, so there is a good chance it may be helpful to you.

Just a quick note by the way… going back to the point where I say that pastor said being gay is sinful and whatever, I have since learnt that the bible and the clobber passages in particular aren't condemning homosexuality at all (In fact homosexuality can be found in over 400 animal species too, yet homophobia is only found in 1 species – humans, lol). And homosexuality isn't a sin, if it were, heterosexuality would also be a sin etc. (moral of the story here: you can't choose who you fall in love with, and falling in love with whoever it is, is not a sin). I have also learnt that the bible must be read and understood in the FULL context in which it was written – both in time, and in hospitality laws. Some of it may not be relevant today, in fact I KNOW some of it isn't, especially the part about stoning children to death for disobeying their parents (We would all be doomed to hell if that were the case!), so I think the bible, from my perspective, must be treated more like an essential guide to life (but understood in its full context), and there are many amazing stories in there which can help us relate to what happens in todays society/generation.

It is for that very reason that I am getting myself a new bible, because the one I currently have I just simply cannot understand or relate to in any way for my generation atleast. So I did some research and came across this Jeff Bethke guy, who also made a very popular video which I personally believe to be very truthful in it's meaning (each to their own though!). So below are a few links which you might find helpful.

Jeff Bethke on why he hates religion but loves Jesus (Jesus confronted many pharisees in their teachings, most of which were unchristian in their views. If the second coming of Jesus happened in this day and age, I believe He would confront many of those pharisees – especially people from the Westboro Baptist Church!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

Some highly recommended books from Jeff: (I noticed I had the unchristian book before I saw the list, so immediately I could tell my own journey and truth was unfolding in doing this research about what Jesus really wanted for us, and ultimately my mum purchased 3 books for my christmas present from some of these recommended books – they all seem very interesting reads anyway)

http://pinterest.com/jeffersonbethke/favorite-books/

The bible I'm getting – it sounds like it has a lot of study notes and context which explains the passages and how they relate to things we go through in life these days. It might be your cup of tea, it might not, worth a look anyway:

http://pinterest.com/pin/81064862013594219/

^ You can click on the bible picture to find it on Amazon.com, there may be cheaper versions elsewhere though, so worth checking around if you do decide it's something you're interested in.

Now below is an example of 'the work' from Byron Katie. I stumbled across her on YouTube and it was one of the best stumblings I have ever come across. I found this video on 'Being Gay Is Unnatural: Is It True?'. It answered so many of my own thoughts and it REALLY gave me some closure for myself and my thinking, so you may find it helps you here too? There are also a ton of books by her which you might find helpful as she looks at four particular questions which basically answers everything. Here is the video anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ApKUqb-RQ

But yeah, going back to my first paragraph. Recently I have been frustrated at not hearing God, so I have looked into how I can communicate with Him, and so I did some more research. I looked on iTunes and came across a few really great sermons on 'how to listen to God'. What I learnt was that we were given 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. We need to listen TWICE as much as we speak. And the pastor went on to say when we pray, most of the time, we say something along the lines of 'God, if only this happened' and 'God, if only you gave me a sign for this problem'. It's all 'me, me, me, I, I, I'. What I didn't realize is that God already knows me inside AND out. What I needed to realize is that I should stop and listen to what God has to say before saying Amen and to stop bolting off to live out the rest of the day without allowing Him to respond! So I am now working on listening to God rather than constantly asking for this and that, because He already knows my deepest desires and needs (He doesn't need to know, because He already does), and I (emphasis on I) haven't been listening to Him.

I have learnt a lot (and still am learning), and thanks to Jeff Bethke, Byron Katie, God's grace and a whole bunch of sermons which I believe to be truthful in their message, I'm slowly but surely finding inner peace with my own struggles.

So I really hope all that helps Steveo 🙂

Hi Steveo

You said….

So how does your faith go on. How do you restore faith, when the foundations of what you hold to be true have crumbled?

Oh gosh I can so much relate to your questions – and my thoughts are definitely with you as you deal with what I have found to be REALLY HARD questions!

I have been working through the same question for the last year. Someone suggested to me that it was like I have thrown everything up into the air and I now need to choose which bits I grab on to and which bits I leave behind. Perhaps this is how it is for you?

When I first started thinking that I might be gay – and knowing that this did not sit comfortably with faith as I knew it – I was determined not to abandon faith, or to abandon my belief in God completely. I thought that there must be a way for the two things to be sorted out together. Initially, issues of faith did not loom as large as issues around coming out to myself – however I began to use a little expression to myself.

That is " I will not run away from you God… but I will walk (slowly) towards you". the picture of myself was one of taking quiet and small steps towards God – within the capacity I had at the time.

For me, part of the answer has been to find a church that is accepting of same sex relationships. And, you know what? There is indeed a whole new theology. It has done my head in at times! However, I am learning to just sit with the discomfort of not having any black and white answers. I am learning to say to God – "Everything I knew is no more… I am so uncertain…. help me have faith" – I guess a bit like the old "Lord I believe… help thou my unbelief"… Maybe Steveo – it requires more faith (not less) to hold on to God in the face of so much uncertainty? Maybe all that is required is a tiny "mustard seed" of faith? For those who speak of the Bible and of faith in such definite and concrete terms… so sure… so clear – maybe this actually limits God – ie confines God to our own human understandings – rather than accepting and admitting that faith is a mystery and we can't possibly hope to get it "right".

So, in short – in thinking about your question? Maybe you don't restore faith to "the way it was". Maybe you develop a newer deeper faith that rests on an acceptance of uncertainty before God – rather than a former naive "certainty". Maybe you live with some tensions – taking small baby steps towards God – whatever that may look like for you. I am still figuring out what that looks like for me -and I am just at the moment making a list of what my steps toward God involves… Going to church…. praying for others…. thanking God….. treating people with compassion…. not judging…. stopping to (literally) care for my neighbour… being quiet at times and appreciating the beauty in nature…

Anyway – hope some of this makes sense and is of help.

Best wishes.

Look forward to hearing more of your questions.

Sarab

@Ann Maree. I like your idea of starting from the ground up. What things do I hold to be true. e.g. Jesus said the greatest command was love. How can I go about today and show love to someone. Or yes I believe God created the world. Does it matter if it was part evolutionary or in 7 days? No not really, more that I acknowledge God than the how. I would like to start by building a list of what I do believe and why. So thanks.

@motherhen. I’m away from NZ at present and joined a group if GLBT Christians in the city where I live. What’s been amazing is seeing them with vibrant faiths despite the hardships they endured coming out, and reconciling their sexuality and faith with all they had been taught. One guy was 74 years old. His boyfriend had died 8 years ago, but he regularly has mates over for dinner and talks about Jesus. Have you ever heard of a gay evangelist at 74 yrs? Wow.

@Jordan. Thanks you get it – the hypocrisy from the pulpit. Sometime I wonder if that’s what they really think – or deep down they fear that they too could also be gay – so they hammer it as if to ‘drive the demons away’. Thanks also for all the links I’m gonna look at them today.

@Shadowboxer – I like what you wrote. I have often wondered when we think of NT churches that shared everything …. And yet in the West we give our left overs. I think of my grandfather orphaned at a young age, being raised by his uncle and aunt who had heaps of children …as they did back then  When he left home at 17yrs he gave the house he inherited from his parents to his uncle and aunt – because they needed it more. That to me is more like the love of Jesus. When you wrote

Nonetheless – I try to follow most of his commands; Do not Judge others. Do not lie; Do not be hypocritical; Invite strangers into your home; Give food and drink to the hungry, Give clothes to the needy; visit the sick and those in prison.”

Like I said at the beginning – that’s what I need to do start building that list of living like Jesus asked me to, and not what some church says I can or cant? I did a post grad theological study, so I understand that the gospel of Mark is a fictional collection / merging of oral history written in a pseudonym. Guess that was my first shock before discovering I was Gay (was in denial at that time). I had always believed that bible to be 100% literal and true. To discover that;

a) Mark wasn't a real person

b) The bible cannon we have now is different from the catholic, or Coptic Christian bible, and was men who voted on its contents, not God

c) That the story of creation in the bible mirrors ancient text Mesopotamian texts that prevailed at the time. Etc

@Michelle – Thanks -once in Melboune I was able to attend FTB evening – you guys rock

Umm. Lots to think about. Thanks heaps

Steveo

I think your spot on… many churches / christians focus on bits of the bible they like – and they also make assumptions

For example that the Sins of Sodom was homosexuality (its not, they are enumerated in several places)

That Arsenokoites means homosxuality (its a GUESS at what the word might mean and is not considered a good guess by current secular scholars) and so on ….

A great case in point is the churches (and in many denominations) focus on sexual sins – and while Jesus comments on adultery – he is far more upset by other sins than sexual ones. And looking further afield – – there are Women who have sex with men not their husbands in the bible – and there are prostitutes and both are called righteous.

I think when you say " that’s what I need to do start building that list of living like Jesus asked me to, and not what some church says I can or cant?" – thats a really good thing to do.

Regarding canonisation of the Bible – in the early days of F2B (in Brisbane – not the current group but an earlier one that closed down) – we had a speaker come to talk about that subject and it was the most popular subject we ever ran ! Its a very interesting topic.

hope we can be of more help to you !