anyone have anything they want to talk about...

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Joined in 2007
March 18, 2007, 11:13

Wow… close… there is another scripture that I am looking for… the internet is strangely silence about that one? Hmmm maybe I imagined it. Hmmm


Joined in 2006
March 18, 2007, 11:21

But if your work is burnt up, then you will lose it; but you yourself will be saved, as if you had escaped through the fire. (good news verion)

Remember, there is only one foundation, the one already laid Jesus Christ. 12 Take particular care in picking out your building materials. 13 Eventually there is going to be an inspection. If you use cheap or inferior materials, you’ll be found out. The inspection will be thorough and rigorous. You won’t get by with a thing. 14 If your work passes inspection, fine; 15 if it doesn’t, your part of the building will be torn out and started over. But you won’t be torn out; you’ll survive – but just barely. (message version)

thats all i could find tho feel one of the peters or johns may have one.

Joined in 2007
March 18, 2007, 11:53

wow I’m so encouraged by everyone reading the bible and lifting each other up in love.

The bible as a whole eludes to the idea that we need Jesus to get though the burning fire of God’s judgement, none of us would survive his wrath otherwise which is why if you don’t believe in Jesus the son of God then you don’t have his protection and you will ‘burn’. Simple as that. This is why evangalism is so important.

Joined in 2006
March 20, 2007, 23:01

I love this thread people…Jesus is Lord…nothing to add at 11pm but maybe in the morning…hugggs all round!!


Joined in 2007
March 21, 2007, 14:44

Hmm ok here is a question: If what I have been saying is true and we need Jesus to be redeemed in God’s eyes, then what about all the people, all over the world who don’t know Jesus through no fault of their own. They have not recieved the education that we have sitting here in western, middle class surburbia in a country that has it’s roots in Christianity. What happens to all the people who have never met a christian person, do not have access to a bible and have never even heard Jesus’ name let alone know who he is. What happens to them?

I have to admit I don’t have an answer (shock, horror). Thoughs appreciated.

The only answer I can come up with is that Jesus is Just and if it is evident that through no fault of their own they did not know Him then they won’t be punnished. Still… it seems a bit of a strech.

Joined in 2006
March 21, 2007, 15:36

There is s scripture for that one Sandy and I will find it for you and its good………..actually prob. a few……..will gather them together, I asked this many years ago and found it…………YOU dont have an answer?? shock Oh dear my desk just shook wink

Joined in 2006
March 21, 2007, 15:39

I saw something or was reading it…can’t remember only last week that addressed this question somewhat…I’ll have to find it to get it correct but it went along the lines of that God has already done His part…Jesus preached to go out and tell all the nations about Him and therefore the responsibility was upon mankind to spread the word…

Joined in 2006
March 21, 2007, 15:48

romans 211-16

11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

So one could conclude that God judges the intentions of the heart of those who have never heard since there are somethings within us that we do naturally that are as the law.

Heres one to just add, something of interest i just came across, which is what we live under now as followers of christ get a load of this scripture

romans 321-31

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all F15 who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

The law of faith is established………wonder what the difference is between through faith for gentiles and by faith for jews??? and he says do we make the law through faith void? meaning those accepting Jesus who arent jews through faith ahhhhhhhh i see it by faith meaning the jews had all the sciptures pointing to Jesus and believe by faith its all true to righteousness and us gentiles who just believe because we are told through our faith……..this is sooooooooo gooddddddd D

Joined in 2007
March 21, 2007, 16:25

I do not have a definite answer about this. However, many years ago, I made the mistake of giving an opinion to a friend. She had been a nun, but had left to live a life outside. She had eventually begun a defacto relationship with a vietnamese man, who happened to be buddhist.

She asked me, did I think that a buddhist, who had never heard the gospel would go to heaven or hell. in my youthful ignorance, I said hell. 😳

understandably, she was upset. I have since learnt to not pretend to know, how God views each life.

So, here is my theory – I have had a lot more compassion. 🙂 💡

Each life on this planet needs to be seen as an individual, and not as a collective. if humanity did this, then I sincerely believe that we would not have experienced a lot of the civil rights issues, as we would not resort to labelling. i.e. African Americans fight for rights in the USA, GAY Rights, Anti-Apartheid, and more, including our own struggle for recognition to be gay / lesbian within the Christian Church.

Galatians 3:8 (Whole Chapter)

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached beforehand the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, “In thee shall all nations be blessed.”

Salvation does not happen just because of a belief in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ – his death & resurrection was the seal on the contract. Abraham and his predessors within the old testament attained salvation because they listened to the voice of God. I don’t believe that they knew about the coming of the Son of God to be the sacrifice for our sins. We know from their stories, that they failed in so many ways. However, regardless, of these failures in their lives, I have always believed that they will be in Heaven. They lived under the terms of a contract that had been written long before they lived, and the promises that God made to us in that contract.

I have always believed that each human being has been born with an essence of God in them, regardless of whether they end up growing up in a society which adheres to Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam. As we know from history, no one, even the traditional Christian west is perfect.

It is often pointed out that so many of the world’s religions have so many common principles. Maybe this is because, we are born from God in the first place, and his essence, within men and women, affects their aspirations and thoughts about a good / bad life.

The laws within Judaism / Christianity i.e. the ten commandments is just a reflection of the essence of God – the things / good behaviour that we would all like to be, and the very goodness of God, reflected in his every thought, action and feeling towards us and his son.

Does this make the 10 commandments any less important? If the 10 commandments are a reflection of the righteousness of God, and hence his essence, then no.

So, how does this work with those who have never heard the gospel?

My theory (and I really do stress, it is just my theory) is that even if someone in, for example, China, never heard the gospel of the completion of our salvation through Jesus Christ, then there is that ‘essence’ of God in that man / woman / child. From that ‘essence’ comes a ‘belief system’ about what is right / wrong. If that person, in good faith, adheres to that ‘belief system’, then God would ‘save’ them much as he saved ‘Abraham’. They lived a life of faith, but did not know that the promise / contract had been signed / sealed, but just never delivered to them.

I understand that what i have written is not entirely scriptural, and will be quite radical for some. As I said before, it is just my own theory.

Anyway, I am open to hear your thoughts on what I have written.

Joined in 2007
March 21, 2007, 21:57

Geez, I need to read my bible more! I can’t believe the answer was staring me in the face in the bible and I didn’t see it. 🙁 Thank goodness I have great people like you guys to show me. 🙂

Hmm I think you are right Maggie, or maybe more accurately the bible is right. Jesus judges the intentions of our heart. I agree with some of what you are saying Boi70, I too believe that we are made in God’s image and therefore have ‘his image’ inside of us, Christian or otherwise. But lets say that an Indian who was aware of the Gospel interpreted God’s image in them wrongly and worshiped Shiva instead of Jesus, what happens then? They are a good person, kind of animals and all that, but they have knowingly rejected the gospel. Are their intentions good to God then?

The difference between Abraham and us is that Jesus had not lived yet. We are soooooo fortunate to have hindsight in this respect, we can see how it all connects and so too could some of the prophets, you can not read three chapters of Isaiah without stumbling across Jesus. It would seem then that the expectations God has of an individual in say contemporary Australia, where we have free access to the Word would be different to that of Abraham.

In regards to being seen as individuals instead of a collective, it’s a nice theory but it would collapse in practice. It’s impossible. We may get gay legal rights, but what about the hundreds of thousands of Christians out there who believe that it is wrong? What about the impacts on family? And to use a different example what about people such as pedophiles? Should their individual needs be recognized? And some conservative Christians (not a view I personally hold but its out there) would view the legalization of homosexual rights in the same category as pedophilia, if we are to ban that for the good of the collective then why not homosexuality? Where do you draw the line? What about the welfare state? The entire system would collapse if single mothers the unemployed and so on where given benefits on an individual basis. And who decides? Say you have a single mum from an abusive background, who is illiterate and you have a single mother who’s late husband left her a fortune and who has a university degree. If these cases where to be individualized then in my opinion the illiterate single mother should have free access to more services and receive a bigger benefit than the latter woman. But who decides this? And what happens if the latter mother doesn’t agree and sues? These are just some of the questions that could be raised. Others could be polygamy, prostitution and so forth. For a society to function it needs a government that makes decisions for the good of the majority, its unfortunate that minority sometimes looses out. While social structures may seem to restrict us, as say a 17-year-old wants to get a job working behind a bar and they legally can’t, they also help us and protect us from other people, laws against stealing for example. Trust me you would create far more problems.

I have to disagree with whatever you read bec_oz. If what you read is true and it is our responsibility to spread the word and through our own fault we haven’t then why should innocent people suffer? It’s a bit of a stretch to think that we should be able to reach every person on the face of the earth with the gospel and have the time to explain in sufficient detail. I don’t think God would make individuals suffer just because the rest of the world hasn’t fulfilled Jesus’ command sufficiently.

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