Of course maggie. I was just using it to point out the irony, that an institution like the Church of God can go against the grain to some extent and promote womens ‘liberation’ from ‘oppressive’ conservative practises and yet the pastor was found guilty of sexual abuse which degraded women, which treated them as subjects, punnshed them for pleasure… It’s amazing to me that the person that commits these crimes also takes a public stand on womens rights in the church. Just pointing out the hypocracy, which of course we are all guilty of.

In regards to women, heres a passage of scripture stating how a man is a covering for a woman, that women are here for the men and so on and so forth but please pay particular attention to the end passage, that explains it all as to how Paul feels about all this stuff.

Corinthians 111-16

1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. 12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God. 13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.

16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

“We have no such custom nor do the churches of God.” The male/female debate quashed in one sentence. wink He even talks about women praying and prophesying. Funny, why address all this and then say “hey but we arent into it anyhow” I would say that it lines up with what Frogger posted regarding women and how Paul was addressing certain audiences at the time and also things lost in translation. Sure many things can come over to us in learning and reproof etc… but its important to see who the letters were addressed to and why……..A letter addressed to me and my situation may help some but not all of it since its to do with me as a whole, does that make sense, so why wouldnt scripture addressed to different places be the same. shock(I speak two languages fluently 24/7 so to speak, Im sure a trained eye can pick that by the way I write, so to some I may sound all over the joint in how I express myself yet to someone else it would be ok, can you see the point Im trying to make? wink )

yeh, no point argueing no, interesting to have it out in the open tho, healthy debates, kindve gives one a different thought to consider. shock

Very true the bible isnt anti-women no. 8) I would never claim to have the full facts, far out id be very famous if i did lol I know none of this has any impact on salvation as such but I guess its good we know what we are talking about if we are to make statements of any kind or to at least be able to say why we believe about certain things the way we do, especially when people pass judgement on anything, tho sometimes as we both know its best not to say anything at all lol wink Even so, I am getting a bigger picture on things and finding out in myself where my true beliefs lie.