Deliver me from the Devil from - Brian Baker's Old Church

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Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
January 10, 2010, 13:25

Hi avb

I’d be interested in reading Brian’s story. I feel for those traumatised ministers you speak of and can understand why it might be just too painful to associate with either Christians or the LGBTIQ community. It saddens me because I hate to think of people being separated by pain, hate, unforgiveness etc.

I agree very much with your statement:

“Getting through the maze and finding resoltion at all levels is a miracle in itself”. There’s a lot to process and I think having a forgiving attitude or allowing forgiveness to occur is only part of dealing with the layers.

It’s good that you’ve had contact with Des Penny. I don’t know him but it’s nice to hear that some ministers and ex ministers are able to connect with you and others in our community.

Brian Baker
Joined in 2010
January 16, 2010, 16:01

Hi Peter

I discovered this website just a few days ago when I was overseas – now I am back in Perth. I was just looking for comments/info about my book ‘From Faith to Reason’ and ‘Brian Baker’

First of all, I am extremely sorry that you experienced a traumatic ‘deliverance’ session 23 years ago when your Pastor took you to Rhema for prayer concerning your problems with your sexuality. Although it was a long time ago – I am confident in saying that I was not ‘the Pastor’ who was involved with that session. I had 4 or 5 full time Pastors working with me during those years and I know one who believed he had a ‘Deliverance ministry’ but he also knew that I did not agree with the extreme methods often used in Pentecostal churches in praying for people to be free from demonic oppression. This is possibly the reason I did not hear about your prayer meeting with the Pastor and others at the time. I had been witness to an equally sickening ‘deliverance’ performed by my Pastor when I attended a Pentecostal church in New Zealand which we were attending in 1972-77 – It was one of the reasons which caused us to leave that church and we decided to go to USA and attend Rhema Bible Training Centre in Tulsa.

The question of my own sexuality had also haunted me for much of my life. At school I was attracted to guys also during my National service 2 years with the British Army although my actual sexual activity with those guys was very limited. this was back in 1954-56 and there was virtually no one available to give advice to young men or women who had questions concerning their sexuality. The very few times I asked questions from older friends or others was I was told that it was just a phase which would pass – I would grow out of it – all I needed was a good woman! The professional opinion at the time was largely that Homosexuality was a mental disorder and that the only ‘cure’ available was usually ‘electric shock treatment’ or a prolonged period in a Mental Institution – neither was appealing to me! Same sex relationships and activity was illegal and many ‘caught in the act’ were sent to prison.

I took the accepted course which was to be married – I was just 21 when I married the girl I had been friends with for about two years. We did produce two children but there was never the passion which I was sure should exist between two people in a sexual experience – I concluded that my wife was frigid but most likely I was just lacking enough enthusiasm. We divorced after seven years but just a year later my ex-wife asked me to have the two children – then aged 5 and 7 – By this time I had a number of brief very vanilla sexual relationships during occasional visits to London.

As far as I knew there were no Gay clubs or saunas – I discovered just two Gay pubs in London but I was usually hesitant in accompanying strangers to their homes, so my activity was very limited. I had not intended to marry again but I was faced with the problem of being almost totally responsible for my two young children. Knowing It would be impossible for me to look after them alone especially as I was fully occupied in developing my business. I searched for a housekeeper/surrogate mother but after numerous responses to my advertisement I interviewed an attractive lady also recently divorced but with a 4 year old daughter. The lady was almost the perfect answer to my problem – she was a qualified nurse and we immediately seemed to get on well together. After just six weeks we decided to get married and at first the relationship went well – we were a family now with 3 children and a year later our baby arrived. I won’t go into all the details here but five years later we were on the verge of divorce. It was at that time that some old school friends and their wives came to counsel us and encouraged us to go to their church. The outcome of all that was that we were ‘Born Again’ and decided to sell the business and our properties and emigrate to New Zealand where I had previously visited. We joined a new local church and were soon involved helping on a daily basis with the ministry and then to Rhema in Tulsa. During all this time I completely suppressed my homosexual tendencies. I had been told that God would deal with any problem and although I had been ‘delivered’ through the ministry of my Pastor and also that I had spent many days in fasting and in prayer – the thoughts were still there.

From Tulsa we started our work of ministry in Perth and from a small number attending our first meetings within a few years we had grown to be the largest single congregation in the City and one of the largest in Australia. I resigned from ministry in 1989 when our marriage finally failed – It was incorrectly stated in an article in the West Australian that my marriage ended because I had confessed to my son that I was homosexual. Yes – I told my son about my homosexuality a few years after I resigned but it was never a factor or the cause of the divorce and he had not said that it was. I received an apology from the West Australia for this assumption.

After my resignation I came to terms with my sexuality and decided that I should spend the rest of my life (then aged 53) living how I wanted to live rather than how others thought I should live! I do not make an issue of my sexuality either in my day to day life or in my book ‘From Faith to Reason’ – I did not want the book to be primarily judged on the basis of my sexual preferences and my change from a fundamentalist Christian to a rationalist, realist, skeptic and atheist had absolutely nothing to do with this.

Peter and others who have written concerning you comments – I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily – please write your comments to me if you wish.

Kind regards and best wishes

Brian Baker

Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
January 16, 2010, 17:21

Hi Brian

Welcome to this site. It’s great to have you here. I really appreciate that you have had the courage and taken the time to share some of your story with us. It sounds like a complex and difficult journey, as with so many of ours.

Are you British? I lived in London for 6 years and miss it. When were you last there?

I’m interested to know more about your transition from pentecostal Christian to atheist if you feel like writing.

All the best to you,

Ann Maree

Joined in 2009
January 16, 2010, 20:11

Hey Brian,

thanks for letting us know you have found our site. It means a lot to some of the people here that you have commented. the natural response would be to hide away and avoid such confrontation. I’m happy you have opened the channel for communication here.

Thanks for sharing your story too. its good to hear it first hand rather then the gossip chain.

Joined in 2009
January 17, 2010, 13:31

Hi Brian,

Indeed – agree with the two comments above mine – thanks very much for having the courage to post openly on here, I for one much appreciate it. As mentioned above I also used to go… you’d probably remember me and my dad.

And I can confirm what you said re the end of your time at the church – I was at the 30(I think?) April 1989 sermon where you announced your departure and you said there that it was basically due to the end of your marriage. Essentially, and I respected you for saying this, something along the lines of when you preach you have to live what you preach and if you can’t, then you have the obligation to step down.

I was actively involved in the church until the end of 1995, and I personally heard about your sexuality in around July 1997, long after I’d left the church, from a fellow ex-Rhema gay guy who had seen you at the Court Hotel, so I don’t think it was in regular circulation at Rhema even by then. I’d already told Peter this privately a few days ago but since you’ve mentioned it here I thought I’d echo it here.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
January 17, 2010, 13:42

Hi Brian……welcome……it means a lot to have you here……and thanks for the apology and also setting the record straight……I’m sure many will appreciate that.

as you may be aware……I am familiar as with the way the truth gets twisted about who we are and what we have done. Places like this is an opportunity to put the record straight.

I have actually tried to connect with you several times for a chat and advice…….but not sure if the messages were passed on. never mind….you found us.

congrats on the book……i know what it is like to write of course and all that is involved. I take my hat off to anyone who has written and is published.

We have a growing network now of former pentecostal ministers who are now out about their sexuality which is refreshing.

BTW…..would you feel comfortable cutting and pasting the section above which is about your journey and creating it as a separate story in this section. I’m sure there would be many who would find it helpful reading it and it will get lost in this thread.

up to you my friend.

Brian Baker
Joined in 2010
January 17, 2010, 14:11

Hi Ann

Thank you for your kind comments – Yes I was born in Kent UK 1936 but left in 1972 to New Zealand and then after USA Bible Training Centre to Perth WA. I have dual citizenship British – Australian. I frequently visited UK while my mother was alive – she died aged 99 – 6 years ago. I also visited my brother and spent a few days in London 2008.

You asked about my journey from fundamentalist Christian to atheist – I have published a book “From Faith to Reason” which I wrote over a period of a few years – details are available on

Thanks again and I hope to hear from you again

Best wishes


Ann Maree
Joined in 2008
January 17, 2010, 14:39

Hi Brian

You’re welcome. Kent is a lovely part of the world. I do love so much of the English countryside and miss it. I was last in London at the end of 2001 so I bet a lot has changed in that time.

I will be interested to have a read of your book.

Kindest Regards,

Ann Maree

Brian Baker
Joined in 2010
January 17, 2010, 15:10

Hi Anthony

Thank you for your message – I appreciate your comments and understanding.

I should not have any objection to posting my first reply on the section you have suggested especially if you think it will be of benefit to others. I am also happy to answer questions and to give any advice or help based on my life’s experience.

Unfortunately, I have not received any previous messages from you from any source – I am pleased that we have contact now and look forward to future correspondence with you

Thank you again

Kind regards


Brian Baker
Joined in 2010
January 17, 2010, 20:30

Hi Pingtimeout

Thank you for your message and comments. I am sorry that you also had a prolonged period of confusion which was without doubt increased by your attendance during those years at Rhema. I am also aware that after Phil took over there was a definite attempt to ‘convert’ gays from their lifestyle – this is something I did not ever institute when I was Pastor.

I believe the attitude there has changed in recent times.

During my time of ministry I strongly believed that being Gay is not a choice as most Christians claim and I simply had to accept the teaching that homosexuality was sinful and therefore was up to the individual to suppress. This was the only way that I could deal with myself and continue in the ministry. Had I been unable to do that I would have resigned immediately – thankfully when my wife decided she wanted to leave the ministry I had the opportunity also to quit and start a new life. I had not sought to end the marriage and I had envisaged continuing for many more years. Those first years after my resignation were difficult and it took me much time to get rid of feelings of guilt and frustration. I say more about all that in my book.

I am pleased for your contact and can only speculate at this time who you may be but I hope you will keep contact and I assure you that I shall always be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Best wishes and thanks again


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