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RaulG
 
Joined in 2010
December 14, 2010, 04:33

Querido Meg and Ann,


Gracias! :bigsmile:


Yours in Christ,


Raul



oooooo
 
Joined in 2006
December 14, 2010, 20:10

I totally agree that the bible needs to be studied and studied some more, to understand cultural significance in what is being said, alongside where and when different passages/books were written, considering the society and political climates during those times when written … the problem is the majority of the christian church does not … not from the pulpit or bible study arenas, at least not well enough for people to understand the various issues, and sexuality is one such example but certainly not the only one where the church speaks black and white from the bible about issues that effect so many …


If churches do some of this that is great, (I know of some that do) but let’s be real here … even those churches I know of at least, don’t dissect and study the bible fully, they only do so in areas of subject that they want to … I have talked to some such churches and they categorically will not even consider sexuality issues to be studied and dissected.


I guess there are some churches out there that do, CCC in Melbourne would be one I guess, so I should not be totally antagonistic towards the entire christian church, just the vast majority lol



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
December 14, 2010, 20:19

Yes it’s a shame isn’t it, Tez? You’d think that a church that upholds the bible as the word of God would want to have really good teaching from it for all who preach and attend. Strange really that they don’t. But I guess a lot of people don’t want to put in the work.



RaulG
 
Joined in 2010
December 15, 2010, 05:57

Querido oooooooooooo (I love saying that handle),


The “vast majority of Christian Churches”?


I’d say that’s the same with most ideologies: it’s adherents don’t really study what they believe and just go along with it.


Many Atheists do not study or uphold the humanistic standards of Hume, Russell, and the other luminaries.


Many Buddhists do not study and meditate on the works of The Buddha (especially the works of his students).


Many Muslims do not study and analyze in depth the legal codes and moral purity regulations within the Koran.


So it should come as no surprise that many “Christians” lack the discipline or focus to study and understand the Word.


But as with the other three examples, this is not a fault of the belief, but rather a flaw in the individual.


The Church I’m with (for instance) is very heavy into Bible study and analysis, and according to a Pew Survey done in 2009, there is an increased interest amongst many Christians to better study and understand Scripture.


Yours in Christ,


Raul



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
December 15, 2010, 08:01

Yes, very true Raul. Much easier to be spoonfed and never check near original sources, no matter what your beliefs.


It makes me think of a theory I have about the 10 commandments. And this is just a thought I have and not picked up from anywhere so it may not be ‘right’ according to what was meant in the day. It seems to me that God wants a relationship with each of his people, which is written throughout both OT and NT. And yet Moses is sent up a hill and comes back with a set of rules. The people opted for a representative and code of conduct than their own relationship with God. Of course it’s human nature to let something/one else be responsible, and no doubt there were practical reasons for this happening, but I find that very sad. There’s no life in rules, but again, life and relationships are much more challenging so sometimes we fall back on what’s easier. I mean, the rules aren’t easy to follow but they tell everyone what to do in black and white. A lot of people like that kind of spoonfed certainty.


Blessings,


Ann Maree



RaulG
 
Joined in 2010
December 15, 2010, 09:42

Querida Ann,


Funny you should mention that. There is nothing in Torah or in any Rabbinical texts that would suggest that ONLY Moses could go up the mountain. The Hebrews were more than welcome to come with him and meet the Lord and to be embraced by his awesome presence.


But they chose to stay at the bottom of the mountain. They sent Moses up as if to say, “Uh, thanks for saving us, but we don’t really have to visit you do we?”, much like a spoiled child who grows up and complains about having to visit his elderly parents despite them giving him all the love, protection, and guidance that he could ever ask for, the Hebrews preferred to tremble and stew rather than face their Maker.


A sad state, no?


Yours in Christ,


Raul



oooooo
 
Joined in 2006
December 15, 2010, 09:58

and that’s the state of humanity overall, and christians are no different

we humans so often will blindly follow some leader/s and if they have it wrong … then so do the majority … and when someone challenges the authority, they are rebellious etc …


In bible college I was told several times to settle down and just go with the flow …


anyway … my point about this topic is that christians need to hop off their hobby horse and realise they are just human and do not have everything together, do not know all that God is or even the blble … yes some realise that, but in my experience of clashes many do not …


is it any wonder more people are out of the church (once having a relationship with both God and church) than in it …


I know it sounds like I am just here to bag the church, I guess I am, but I am doing it for me to get a better handle on some things, because believe it or not, I am wishing intently I could return to church, every now and then I pop my head in and 9 times out of 10 WHAM I get a blow to the head by the ‘loving pastor or similar’ …


Even my non affirming mother is outraged by the stories I tell of my own experiences

and she adds to the list of those that say I should start my own church just allowing HS to do his work …

makes me wonder sometimes …



Myfanwe
 
Joined in 2007
December 15, 2010, 11:39

oooooo I get people telling me to start my own church or discussion group, too and sometimes, I am tempted by that idea but I fear I’d run out of energy and let it slide because of my physical limitations.


Even in the most ‘accepting’ churches I’ve been to, I have found those willing to give a ‘loving blow’ to the head, and the pastor often isn’t even aware of that happening. Also, when guest speakers come to speak the pastor doesn’t always have a lot of say over what will be said. Even if sermon notes are ‘vetted’ beforehand, that doesn’t guarantee that something might not be said in ‘the fire of the spirit’ during the sermon that was not in the notes.


I really felt that I was ‘lead/called’ back to church, and I have found one that has made me welcome (with only a very few knowing my whole story) but now that I am there, I am finding myself wondering if I really need to be? I don’t want to sound arrogant or boastful, but I feel as though I am at university level and sitting in primary school, if that makes sense? Like an adult being spoonfed on baby food. The fellowship is nice, but I could use something solid to eat.


Now I feel guilty for saying that! :bigsmile: 😀



RaulG
 
Joined in 2010
December 15, 2010, 15:05

Querido Familia,


To those who are seeking a church where they belong, I say to you: Good fortune and Godspeed. After my conversion it took me years to find a church and community where I was at peace and where the Biblical scholarship was as high as our need to go out and aid others as our Lord calls us to do. Before then, it was a journey where I walked along with the Holy Spirit, but not the counsel of men. It is a hard journey. Just as studying the Bible is hard. Just as holding onto one’s morals and empathy in a cruel, and selfish society is hard.


But it is a journey that will make you grow if you let it and if you have the wherewithal to see it to the end.


To those of you who want something more from your church, I say to you: Share your gift. Do not hide your light. Do not quietly stew in a corner grumbling about how the discourse is “not at your level”, rather stand and share your insight with your brothers and sisters. Teach and accept the lessons your students give you in turn. Offer wisdom and be prepared to become wise from those you counsel. If the Spirit speaks through you, then who are you to remain silent? Be heard.


Yours in Christ,


Raul



Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
December 15, 2010, 17:35

Hi Raul


Querida Ann


Funny you should mention that. There is nothing in Torah or in any Rabbinical texts that would suggest that ONLY Moses could go up the mountain. The Hebrews were more than welcome to come with him and meet the Lord and to be embraced by his awesome presence.


But they chose to stay at the bottom of the mountain. They sent Moses up as if to say, “Uh, thanks for saving us, but we don’t really have to visit you do we?”, much like a spoiled child who grows up and complains about having to visit his elderly parents despite them giving him all the love, protection, and guidance that he could ever ask for, the Hebrews preferred to tremble and stew rather than face their Maker.


A sad state, no?


This is a great discussion we’re having, isn’t it? 🙂


And yes, that’s how I always read the text – that they had the choice but were too scared or wanted someone else to do the work. I agree: it is a sad state of affairs.


Blessings,


Ann Maree


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