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Fear

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Sparrow77
 
Joined in 2007
April 20, 2009, 20:22

Hi!


I don’t know what I’m asking or what I’m expecting.I’m freaking out a little. I stayed with a friend last week (an older Christian woman) who has challenged me that I’m not living God’s way and compromising my salvation and will be unable to grow in my relationship with God. This feeds my ongoing fear that I’m not living in a way that pleases God. I have been with my girlfriend for 5 years now and love her to bits. I am a much happier and more balanced person with her. I fear though that God is more interested in holiness than my happiness and despite having a monogamous relationship, I get so stressed that it is still ungodly to be with a woman. Will I ever find peace or is that God’s way of convicting me? Do you fear that we just believe what we want to believe in order to justify our lifestyle? Grrrrr, it is so hard. I want it to be okay cause I love my partner to death. I know that the road is narrow and obedience isn’t easy. I feel like the rich young ruler, unable to give up my relationship. I’m sick of coming back to this place all the time. Do other people experience this?


Thank you for listening!



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
April 20, 2009, 21:14

It isnt an uncommon place to find yourself in, I guess the question is what IS holiness or a place of holiness? what does it mean to live a holy life? I think you will find no-one is completely holy, whether they be straight, pastoral or otherwise, what pleases God is faith, our trust and belief in him, the rich young ruler is about material things not r’ship and very sad if someone has used that out of context to guilt trip you 🙁


I always come back to this, I dont refuse to have God in my thinking and I dont worship the created things as mentioned in Romans and the book of leviticus was written for the “levi” priesthood, also if I wanted to be “holy” to fulfill scripture in everyway, I wouldnt eat pork, seafood or wear mixed fabrics and when I menstruated I would be in the desert for a week and then come back and keep my sick on an island and stone people for misdemeanors, also I would live meagrely and have to lock myself away from the outside world because everywhere I look I see semi naked billboards.


I think its terrible when someone who is as imperfect as me challenges me with things that make out they are “right” with God and Im not, thats very judgemental. I would be living a lie before God pretending to love a man intimately, leading him astray, if I am celibate, Id be in denial and shutting down the part of me God created me to be and that is relational.


Acoording to Paul its better to be single but thats accordng to Paul and that was HIS call and he looked down on those who had to marry because “if you cant control your lusts” 🙄 the comment in itself tells me he had no grasp of any sort of r’ship and the intimacy that comes naturally with that, its not a lust, we were made that way to feel that way for the one we love and you can still be just as dedicated to God.


Anyhow, after all that 😯 lol 😉 I encourage you that there is a place of certainty andits possible to get there, we will always be challenged and knowing your bible and some study always helps against tthose who try to turn us from our “evil ways” whether good intentioned or not its still a form of judgement……..I wish I could magic this away for you 🙁



Sandy
 
Joined in 2007
April 21, 2009, 12:33

don’t know what I’m asking or what I’m expecting.I’m freaking out a little. I stayed with a friend last week (an older Christian woman) who has challenged me that I’m not living God’s way and compromising my salvation and will be unable to grow in my relationship with God.


Why is it people always think homosexuality is a salvation issue?! It drives me mad. The basis of the Protestant tradition is that we are saved by faith and not by works. If you believe, you will be saved. Its one of the first things they teach in sunday school and yet somewhere along the way “good” Christians tend to forget or negate the very doctrine that is fundamental to the faith.


I’m sick and tired of debating whether homosexuality is right or not but this, at its heart, isn’t about being gay at all. If we were in a forum for people who told white lies then I’d feel the same way about this issue even though I’m sure it would never be brought up. A sin is a sin and the people who think homosexuality is a sin should realise that if homosexual Christians don’t get to heaven based on their “sins” then no one will because its not our “goodness” or “rightness” that saves us.



orfeo
 
Joined in 2007
April 21, 2009, 13:33

Heya Sparrow,


Sandy’s made a great point here. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that being with your partner is a sin.


It won’t put your salvation at risk.


As to whether you’ll ever find peace… well, I can’t tell you. All I can say is that I DID find peace, and it took me about 17 years. For many of those years I was tortured (or torturing myself) to the point of agony, and thought there was no end in sight. But what do you know, there WAS an end. And I honestly and truly believe that God played a major hand in that peace. There was even a good old word of knowledge involved.


But this is just my experience. Other people have other experiences.


Other people have other interpretations of the Bible as well. That’s up to them. What I refuse to take from anybody is the idea that I’ve somehow thrown away Biblical interpretation just to ‘believe what I want to believe’. After 17 years of struggle I just find that insulting.


And the fact that you are struggling says to me that you too should reject any idea that you just believe things for the sake of convenience.



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
April 21, 2009, 13:34

A sin is a sin and the people who think homosexuality is a sin should realise that if homosexual Christians don’t get to heaven based on their “sins” then no one will because its not our “goodness” or “rightness” that saves us.

_________________


Exactly! its by faith not by works and having Jesus as lord and saviour.



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
April 21, 2009, 20:42

And the fact that you are struggling says to me that you too should reject any idea that you just believe things for the sake of convenience.


Far out, to think that we would believe what we believe for convenience, thats rough and assuming, I dont think you would be like that, youre more than that 😉


I too have been a christian 17yrs and the steps i took to allowing myself to be self accepting of my orientation before God wasnt done in haste, i realised that being a lesbian wont make me lose my salvation, i too am monogamous and dedicated my r’ship to God, im not recognised in marriage so i follow old testament model on that, who you sleep with or choose as life partner is yours always before God (minus all the concubines they had on the side 😆 all approved, now let some straight christian explain how that was right 🙄 ) orfeo is right, the peace comes and hopefully soon…….you wont lose your salvation, i wont either, i try to model my life after Jesus and follow him and many people from many walks of life did that even in his time.



Ditte
 
Joined in 2009
April 22, 2009, 08:00

Hi Sparrow!


Oh my! You sound just like me.. I am going though the same thoughts as you are, over and over again! Who are the animies? The ones that says that its allright to be gay? or the ones thats clames that its a sin?


Its so hard.. because we want to love and respect God but how far does he exspext us to go? All the way but what does that mean? The more answers I get, the more ? I get.. very confusing 😯



Sparrow77
 
Joined in 2007
April 22, 2009, 22:49

Thank you for your replies!


I feel pretty flat at the moment and have talked to my girfriend so she’s not feeling great either. It sux!


Tonight in bible study we read James which says that faith without works is dead. Are my deeds grieving God? I read a book like that and feel doomed.


Ditte – I can totally relate to you. Yes, we do want to live God’s way but what does that mean???


Orfeo, what conclusions did you come to studying Romans 1 etc? What was the turning point for you?


Mags, the way you talk about God shows your deep relationship with Him. I feel like I don’t have this relationship and don’t really understand what He’s like regardless of my decades of bible studies and sermons.


Sandy, thank you for your reminder of first principles. I just fear my faith is without deeds.


I often wonder if the fears/convictions I have come from hearing the one perspective preached my whole life – one cannot just change a viewpoint so easily. So how do we know if it’s that or the Holy Spirit convicting us???


Well, this is a cheery post … sorry! I just feel a bit lost and don’t know where to go. Thanks again!



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
April 23, 2009, 07:58

Youve just reminded me of what someone once told me and I experienced too, the word without the spirit is dry………why did the jews battle so much with word according to Jesus, Paul explains it:


2corinthians3:5-11 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,

6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;* for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.


they looked at the dry word without the spirit behind it and that is soooooo legalistic and makes you feel you are on trial and at every turn will make you feel condemned, there is no grace or r’ship, Jesus had to come to get the record straight and fulfill the way and also without him, pentecost or the holy spirit would not be here to indwell us and give us this assurance of salvation, we would still be under the dry, legalistic letter of the law which according to Paul is “For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. ” (it is passing away, our righteousness is in christ not in what we do or dont do and following his commands which he stressed as being what he gave us, the two of the ten which encompasses the ten)so that which gives us peace uis the spirit, that which brings clarity is the spirit.


The spirit does not bring confusion or even stirs confusion, thats where as a pentecostal im so grateful, since experiencing and recognising the spirit of God, I have that peace, my r’ship is a heart r’ship not a word only, head place r’ship based on fact, i actually feel what i believe but of course i believed first before i felt it, this is where faith comes into it and that pleases God.


How does this help you? well you can read this but the question of how remains, best thing is to be with christians who dont judge you and help you sense the spirit of God, personally I love it when I can help someone do that but you have to be together with them not through paper actually even over the phone in some cases is possible.


Tonight in bible study we read James which says that faith without works is dead. Are my deeds grieving God? I read a book like that and feel doomed.



We easily forget about grace dont we, we look at the command and not the grace that goes with it, God knows and has patience in our times of uncertainty, so no we are not doomed if our faith is not quite there or is still being developed, whatever we do we must take back to Jesus and his mercy and grace, he never once condemned anyone for being where they were at but he certainly condemned the “righteous perfect” jews for their lack of understanding and being such pious posers. 🙄


Dont be so hard on yourself, why do we do to ourselves what even Jesus wouldnt do 🙁 😉


I just went to the microwave and thought “has this girl ever had someone just sit in Gods presence with her instead of just read and discuss everything?” their is such a richness in his presence no one could ever speak to you in fullness, its asif it penetrates your very being, thats where the peace is and I pray it happens for you, its free for all.



magsdee
Disabled
Joined in 2006
April 23, 2009, 09:31

The more I think about it, it sounds like you need some time out from the bible and bible study just to help you settle, its not a sin and God will hardly be offended, right now you have voices and thoughts coming from everywhere, time out girl, truly!!!!!


Whenever I get flustered and confused about anything, ,I stop everything and chill, read a good novel and let my brain and emotions process and recover, as an ex christian counsellor I recommend it.


I once had a nervous breakdown years ago because of being “overfed” and it had nothing to do with orientation, as sioon as i looked at a bible verse id have an anxiety attack and my head would be severly done in, what had happened was i nlost sight of my salvation and the simple gospel and went on the road where i took everything at wiord value, didnt drink, condemned and prayed every single thought (half of which wasnt even bad) out, didnt touch alcohol and even stayed away from people and family and just hung out withcertain “elect” 🙄 by works people who claimed they were walking by faith in “the” truth, we followed everything to the letter to be perfect and holy, fact is, it made us self righteous and judgemental and bordering on the insanity that “we” had it right and that “we” would be exclusively told when rapture was about to happen 🙄 it was a very dark demonic time in my life, you wouldnt think so, i could prove everything via the bible but faact is, i was working to be right with God by my righteousness to save me and notrelying on the righteousness of Christ to save me. When we start questioning our salvation based on our actions, then we are in trouble, I confess Jesus as lord and saviour and the begotten son of God and follow HIS teachings, the epistles are great as a guideline for aspects of life but read out of context and read without understanding the background and the audience causes a loty of trouble and division as we see with soooo many sects……..


So please, just a suggestion, please take time out, allow yourself time to process things and just be for a few mths, it will help.

.


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