Gay advocacy group thankful for Saddleback Church meeting

‘The Saddleback staff was very friendly, welcoming and very attentive,’ one attendee says.

By ALEJANDRA MOLINA

THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/local/lakeforest/article_2070012.php

LAKE FOREST – The conversation dealt with transgendered individuals, homosexuality, and theology.

Representatives of the gay community today shared their “coming out” stories and discussed religious attitudes toward homosexuality with Saddleback Church staff.

“I feel the foundation is being built for other dialogue between Saddleback and the gay community,” said Richard Finch, a Lake Forest resident who participated in the session.

One person talked about being transgender and Christian, attendees said. Another individual talked about being in the brink of suicide because of his childhood church’s views on homosexuality.

Pastor Rick Warren and his wife were unable to attend. It’s part of an effort to initiate dialogue with mega-church congregations across the nation. Members of the project — The American Family Outing — have now visited six such congregations including Saddleback, which was their last stop in an effort that began in May.

Warren — who founded Saddleback Church — has called the fight against AIDS one of the church’s signature issues. In an e-mail, he described marriage as a “binding covenant between a man and a woman. The meaning should not be distorted to signify any other kind of relationship.”

Finch, 38, who was banished from his church after coming out with his homosexuality 15 years ago, said he was grateful for the opportunity to meet with church leaders on the issue.

“The Saddleback staff was very friendly, welcoming and very attentive to letting each person share their story of coming out and reconciling their faiths,” said Finch, who grew up with the Pentecostal church. “Even though we have our theological differences, I appreciate them being open to discourse.”

Larry Ross, a spokesman for Saddleback Church, declined to discuss the meeting in detail.

“Because it was set up as a private meeting, we need to honor that commitment,” Ross said.

Jeff Lutes, executive director of Soulforce — a gay rights advocacy group that organized the project — said the issue of homosexuality has divided the American faith community.

“All of these churches have lots of gay and lesbian members who are there,” Lutes said. “Some are deeply in the closet and the church is really missing out on the gifts that they can offer the church. You can’t offer all of your talents if you’re pretending to be something you’re not.”

Attendees said the issue of gay marriage was not a major topic of discussion.

Robert Goodman, a Los Angeles resident who has a husband and a six-year-old son, spoke about being on the brink of suicide.

“I didn’t want (church members) to keep going forward not knowing the impact that their position has,” Goodman said.

“I think our desire was to really engage in a theological discussion on the issue of homosexuality,” Goodman added. “We a have a theological position on that and they have one… our desire was to discuss our differences with them but they were unwilling to do so.”

Overall, Goodman said they were successful in creating a dialogue with the church.

“They seemed willing to continue to speak with us and be in dialogue with us,” he said. “I feel good that we accomplished that much.”

I wish I could share the same “hope” that things are actually happening. My doubtful side says that Warren would have sent his lieutenants along to talk to the Soulforce people & then would have been up in the pulpit preaching against gays.

That’s what happened at NewBirth when they met with Bishop Eddie Long.

This is not a priority for Rick Warren. He has too much Purpose Driven $$$ to lose if he is even seen to be remotely entertaining the “immoral minority”.

I’d like to see something on THEIR website that says they are changing. Yes, it can be good to have the conversation – but I would hope that the conversations lead to something more than just a “private meeting”.

These mega churche$ still have a lot to lo$e if they cut off the main-line customers/worshippers/members/believers.

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for the welcome 😀 Yes, I’ve been around for a while.

The meeting with Saddleback Church people is in itself an extraordinary event. Equal in importance to the meeting you’ve had with Brian Houston.

In years of studying the growth of mega churches (& consequently wondering why we can’t have the world’s biggest inclusive mega church right here in Sydney – but alas, I digress) – the prevailing factor is that they tend to be the most progressive thinking churches who are ready to adopt new ideas, styles, and cultural values.

My biggest concern about the apparent friendliness to rainbow Christians is that Rick Warren starts to roll an awfully big dice. That dice has even higher stakes attached. Incredibly, Purpose Driven Church has been used to revolutionise more churches globally than any other document since Vatican 2.

In the original and subsequent editions – references are made to homosexuality in the negative. It’s one of the things that made Rick Warren & the Purpose Driven phenomenon an absolute hit. He was seen to be progressive in his thoughts, and methods, without being aligned with “those weirdos” (us).

I wonder how his PR people are going to position this? Will it be an opportunity for more Purpose Driven franchised books to be sold? Or will it be an opportunity for lots of people to start pulping their copies?

The risks are enormous, but I am thankful that Saddleback has taken these steps. Still waters run deep in these organisations, and for them to retain their cutting edge and culturally relevant approach, they all know that they need to do something about this “gay thing”.

I hope that what they do in the long run, is more than just the meeting for half a dozen people. And I hope that the things that are happening behind the scenes at Saddleback, will be as revolutionary as the pioneering work that Rick Warren did when he first started the church.

Small beginnings are still beginnings. If any mega church can handle discussions about gay issues with positive outcomes then Saddleback can. I wouldn’t be too concerned at Warren not being directly involved — I heard Warren in what could be called a rebuke of the church for their handling of AIDS issues, too. Small beginnings are all good.

It’s good to remember that there are as many grieving inside homophobic churches as those outside. They feel forced to choose between God–who their church insists is opposed to GLBT people–and their “lost” sons and daughters who no longer worship alongside them. Naturally, most of them go with God and the church. But that doesn’t relieve the pain of their loss.

Since there are more of them in megachurches than in smaller congregations, it makes sense that there is where the pressure for change from WITHIN will happen. Don’t think for a minute that the hundreds of GLBT parents, relatives, and friends who belong to Saddleback weren’t thrilled to read about the Family Outing dialogue. And don’t think some of them aren’t already lobbying for change as a result.

All it takes is a few high-profile Pentecostal pastors to open their arms. At first, there will be lots of scandal and outcry, as happened when Tulsa’s Bishop Carlton Pearson announced he and his church now welcomed all believers, including GLBT Christians. But let a few more pastors and churches follow his courageous lead, and the dam will break.

God bless them, my parents are both retired Pentecostal ministers. They know the Word better than just about anyone else and they live it. But they’re also slaves to doctrine and dogma, despite the pain it’s caused them and me. The moment their pastor (of a Florida megachurch) obeys God’s Spirit and starts preaching “whosoever will” as Christ intended, they’ll be among the first to shout “Amen!” Until then, they believe they’re being obedient to grieve for the time when we were a united, saved, “Bible-believing” family.