I Don't Know What To Think

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Joined in 2007
March 9, 2008, 09:18

Well… since you have written a long post I am going to do the same, this one is all John’s fault Anthony I’m innocent! 😆

THIS is why I never write short posts, I am incapable of being susinct so I never end up explaining myself properly. I don’t blame you for taking issue with my last post, in my defense it was really early in the morning. Here is what I meant to say:

We all must rely on God’s grace to get to heaven, every single one of us. It’s bad theology to suggest that some people are more worthy than others and if I came across that way then forgive me, it was not my intent. I used the example of pro-gay theology because that is what Joe and I happened to be discussing but lets incriminate my own mistakes for a second and maybe you will be able to see my point better 😉 .

I think my posts make it pretty clear that I have little patience for what I call ’emotional theology’ or peoples inclination to focus on their emotions and intuition as a way of ‘knowing God’ or ‘knowing what God wants’. However, this has consequences in my ability to understand people and to show compassion and love. I am more likely to get irritated by minor ’emotional theological’ details than focus on the obvious plight of the individual. I forsake simply ‘being there’ for someone in the face of attempting to set them straight theologically. This never works. Someone who is in distress doesn’t usually care what the bible says, they want comfort not a ‘bible bashing’.

So that is one of my mistakes, something I get wrong constantly and it is just as sinful as homo-erotic behaviour. I too will get through by the skin of my teeth because I sin. However we can all mature in Christ and sins we make in the past we don’t necessarily have to make in the future, we can learn from our mistakes. My point was as a sinner, whether your sin happens to be mine or Joes we all need God’s grace and sin does not glorify God, we are not fufilling the purpose for which we were created.

I do not see homosexuality as an identity. To say that God does not approve of me because I am homosexual (which is what you believe I am saying) says to me, God does not approve of me because I am tempted towards sin. That is bad theology too. Jesus was tempted for forty days and nights in the desert and Jesus was without sin, therefore it is theologically incorrect to say temptation is a sin. It is when we act on that temptation that is becomes sin, in the same way that Jesus giving into the devil would have been sin. I see my condition as a person who is same-sex attracted and my identity as a Christian as different things.

It is not my intent to promote pro-gay theology… I assumed that was clear but if its not then there you have it in black and white. I am not interested in helping anyone leave the truth of the bible behind to adopt a homosexual identity. Homosexuality means that an individual has an erotic inclination towards the same sex. This, for all intents and purposes manifiests itself in the desire to have erotic and loving relationships with people of the same-sex. A desire for this is not a sin, it is a temptation, it only becomes sin when we give into it. So then to say ‘I am homosexual’ is to say I desire to have an erotic and loving relationship with someone of the same-sex, it is to say I am tempted. I am not contradicting myself, there is a world of difference between being tempted and sinning. God knows we are tempted, God Himself was tempted!!

It is always harmful to ignore temptations, whatever they may be. It usually meams we live a doubble life. Simply because we ignore something does not mean it fails to exist. I encourage people to be honest because what does the AA say? “realising you have a problem is the first step to recovery”? or something like that. If you do not accept that you are tempted then you are not able to seek help from others or from the Lord, you are effectivly in denial.

Like I said there is a world of difference between accepting temptations and using that acceptance to better prevent situations where the temptaion could be overwealming and acting on your temptations. We are all tempted by wrong things not just homosexual people. To deny our temptations is to deny our humanity.

Joined in 2008
March 9, 2008, 09:57


Anthony is just going to have to get used to long posts!! Its not like your forced to read them!!! LOL!!! Sorry Anthony! 😆 😆

Thats ok, Ill keep this one short. We could go round and round until we are blue in the face. So we will just have to agree to disagree. 😉

You see homosexuality as a condition, I see it as an identity. If I did see it as some sort of disease then of course I would completely agree with you! 😆 However, I do not. Like many, many, people, they will tell you they have always been gay, that they have been, from a very early age, attracted to the same sex. If it really was a condition, Im sure we would have some sort of treatment by now. However all the electro-shock therapy, and psycologists, and excorsisms have not only failed but hurt the “patient” even more. Why? Because there was absolutly nothing wrong with them in the first place. Its sad.

I really think that most of your influences to believe the way you do however comes from the attitude of the church as a whole. But thats just my opion, I know you disagree. 😉 But thats what this whole forum is here for right? LOL. 😆

Joined in 2007
March 9, 2008, 10:15

Ok, I’ll bite and point out the obvious… homosexuality is not been proven to be genetic. It has not been proven that anyone has been ‘born gay’. I understand there are people who feel they were because its all they can remember but then I don’t remember anything previous to about age 5 so thats five whole years of time that I can’t even recall. Even if homosexuality is proven to be genetic that does not immediatly imply it is normal or natural. Genetic links for alcohlism and obesity have been proven, is anyone going to claim their right to drunkeness because its genetic?

Again, to point out the obvious there is a ‘treatment’ of sorts. Ever heard of ‘ex-gays’? I know that its a topic which raises much controversy and questions, why hasn’t God changed me? etc. But the fact remains that there are people out there who have changed to a higher or lesser extent. It’s possible, maybe not for everyone for whatever reason but it does happen.

Joined in 2006
March 9, 2008, 10:27

So my question here Sandy is, why do you think we will get to heaven by the skin of our teeth???? everyone on the planet, preacher or otherwise? How do we qualify for heaven in your beliefs? anddddddd once we get there what will throw us to the pit on judgement day?

I believe that wholeheartedly believing in Jesus as my lord and saviour saves me, thats it. The working out of my salvation or being like Jesus on earth and being who we were created to be and live like is a growth thing and something we grow into, married, single, gay, straight or otherwise and glorifying God is all a part of that, its a learning curve.

Oh and btw the example I gave in my other post is just one of many re. glorifying God, I dont write everything I believe or follow because it would take up this entire site LOL 😆

The fact I hugged a complete elderly male stranger in a laneway one day because in my heart I felt God say to do so, I know glorified him, the man was precious in his response and we both stood there hugging and saying how great God is, Ill never forget it. I never saw him again and never had I seen him before either. He needed it, his wife had passed away and he was feeling down he told me, so me lesbian and yet God worked through me and get this he was talking to God in his head saying he could do with a hug.

God is gracious yes and in our growth as believers he isnt going to scold us if we arent mature yet, if we die in our growth he isnt going to condemn us either, I mean what parent scolds their 2yr old for not being more like a 4 yr old, I mean some kids are bright and do comprehend ahead of their years and some that dont but so can we be as people and new followers of Jesus, their are somethings you wont understand that I do or experience and vice versa and the beauty is God knows and deals with us according to where we are at. Here is where it is great when you either have had your own kids or have a natural maternal or nurturing instinct or even a great heart connection in yourself but not everyone is born that way and God understands that too and over time it can develop.

I digressed as usual a bit LOL 😉

Joined in 2007
March 9, 2008, 10:48

My point was none of us qualify for heaven, we get there through the sacrafice of Jesus not by anything we have done or have failed to do. I think we agree on this, or at least we did at one point. Obviously my “by the skin of our teeth” phrase is turning out to be a bad choice. 😆 What I mean by that is we don’t get to heaven on our own steam, we get to heaven only because of Jesus and God’s mercy, we get in because He allows us to, not because we deserve it. In that same vein Jesus is your only safegaurd on judgement day, if you have Jesus your safe. I think we have all made a mountain out of a molehill with this heaven discussion, we are all saying basically the same thing.

As for the rest of your post, (aside from the I can glorify God by being gay remark), I agree. Maternal instincts are good.

Joined in 2006
March 9, 2008, 11:07

Its not a mountain out of molehill thing LOL its just a clarification for others when they read so they understand where we are all coming from 😉 But Yes Jesus is our only way to heaven and the one who will stand by us and say “yes she/he is mine” 😀 So really there should be no arguement as to who goes to heaven gay or straight……the life we choose to live or not live wont have much relevance to the final decision since as believers we are all working out our salvation. So really no one should feel bad or backhanded by God just because they are Gay/lez/tbiq and christian too.

Joined in 2007
March 9, 2008, 11:16

Uh my entire point from the begining was that there is no argument that gay Christians will go to heaven, that is what started this whole thing!! 😆

But the correlation you make after that, that people should not feel bad for being a gay Christian because they will go to heaven doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If I commited adultery (which if you leave out the likes of Mel White who claimed his adultery was “an exelent education” and “inevitable” 🙄 ) I would be sinning, true? Yet as a Christian through the grace of God I will still be saved. Christs death does not negate the fact that some things are sin and we ought to feel bad for them, it does forgive us for them. For something to be forgiven it has to be sin in the first place.

Joined in 2006
March 9, 2008, 11:27

God help us 😆 as i said before if I wrote a full explanation into everything I say and mean then it would never end. Im not argueing what is sin and what isnt LOL not atttttttttt alllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!! Im getting off this roundabout, I found a new map on 😆

Joined in 2007
March 9, 2008, 11:47

LOL fair enough.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
March 9, 2008, 22:38

how is everything going in here my lovelies……..I’ve been extremely busy and haven’t got time to read all this very very active thread.

are we all being good boys and girls.

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