Just harking back to Sandy’s last response, I’m totally gob smacked! How can anybody truly understand? We’ve had such different pathways through our own quagmires (i.e. my ‘Closet Secrets’ on the story posts – you are welcome to read it).

I guess there’s a sexuality that is not so black and white. Despite his opponents Kinsey devised the continuum of sexuality that normalises bisexuality, something I have never really understood. Bisexuals are not intrinsically gay and I would imagine this sexuality is in fact changeable.

The other consideration is part homosexual, part asexual. Does this exist? My harsh conclusion about ex-gays is based on my in-depth discussions with male friends, including gays, non-gays and men in prominent church roles. Every single one of them has recited stories of temptation (straight and gay) and all have admitted to either sexual unfaithfulness or strong sexual desire outside marriage. (I’ve been talking with my male friends about sexuality for more than 10 years). I don’t doubt faithfulness exists as I once proved it in my own life. By contrast I assume most people think the opposite of me when I write openly about my indiscretions. It has simply been the fabric of my troubled sexual journey and not necessarily a lack of moral priorities.

I do recognise the right of an individual to be celibate but I consider celibacy to be more than chastity or choosing to stay single. I suspect that true celibacy is void of masturbation and pornography. When I was a young cadet at the Salvo Training College in the late 1970’s, I became quite disillusioned as I realised that one by one my colleagues fell far short of my celibate expectations. It put an end to the month-long celibacy I imposed on myself after I’d been outed for having sex with a male colleague. Perhaps it is different for women? Perhaps not…

Glorifying God is a whole other subject if you ask me. I’ve heard first hand the rhetoric of Brian Houston, Bishop Jensen and many a Salvation Army Commander or General who glorify God while engaging in a wholesome heterosexual relationship with their marriage partners. It seems far removed from their view of gays as self-obsessed and sinful individuals who act contrary to God’s laws. I believe a Christian can enjoy a relationship with God whether gay or straight.

(‘Are You Smarter than a 5th-Grader’ is tragically a quiz show run by Rove McManus in the shadow of temptation. A group of extremely bright 5th graders compete against some very ordinary adult contestants who exhibit an inadequate level of intelligence. As people lose they are required to look down the barrel of the camera and admit they are not smarter than a 5th grader.)

Sandy, I respect your tease about pertinent questions. If Boswell isn’t convincing enough there may be others. The Bible, Christianity, & Homosexuality by Justin R. Cannon is one of my favourite. You can find this at: http://www.truthsetsfree.net/bible.htm Perhaps you’ve done this too?

I also agree with Magsdee that there may be no proof, just testimonies from those whose lives have been enriched by accepting their sexual orientation. I’ll also give Maggie B’s posts some time to absorb. I am sure of one thing, Sandy. Your engagement with f2B has made us all richer.

Cheers!

Kit

Possibly many of us here have something that is far more precious than all the knowledge and answers gained from books…..and that is a deeply profound inner knowledge and peace that we are ok and loved by God just as we are.

I got that in 1998……….it wasn’t till years later I began reading more about this stuff………but it was already there in my heart.

a deeply profound inner knowledge and peace that we are ok and loved by God just as we are.

I almost envy you then. Thats the trouble with inner knowledge, some people have it and some people don’t and no one knows a formula for exactly how they came about it.

Thanks for your opinions though! Good stuff.

a deeply profound inner knowledge and peace that we are ok and loved by God just as we are.

I almost envy you then. Thats the trouble with inner knowledge, some people have it and some people don’t and no one knows a formula for exactly how they came about it.

Thanks for your opinions though! Good stuff.

lots of people do Sandy….and often ask me how did it happen…..how did i get there. to me the answers almost seem trite and cliched…….they are too simple. I know some of the things I did…….but in the end it just happened.

Maybe it was those all those years (28 in fact half of my life) in torment that makes the internal reconciliation so profound.

I know there are principles that get people there…the only thing we dont know from my experience is ………the time table.

The doctrine of salvation by grace strongly suggests to me that whether or not I am a Christian is not affected/determined by what I do.

But the converse isn’t true. Being a Christian tends to affect what I do. Or it should. If it doesn’t, I’m in danger of setting up an internal conflict where what I do upsets me, because of who I am.

In fact, I would extend that same argument to many other examples, including sexuality. I am gay, and when my actions didn’t reflect that it led to psychological distress. The difference that being able to make a simple statement like ‘I am gay’ has made is enormous.