I really shouldn’t be posting because I have so much to do but that has never stopped me in the past so here I go again.

We all have pet things that irk us. For me its gay people who know they are at some level still attracted to the same sex and feel its ok to get married. It bugs me. Marriage is sacred and I have big things against divorce except in instances where its physically dangerous to remain married. Since that isn’t the topic of this thread and I am likely to loose any argument I have on the topic anyway we won’t go there.

I agree that single people miss out on alot in Church and probably alot in life too though I have zero maternal instinct. I think both sides of the argument have valid points and I’m not much of a fence sitter but I think on this one I will. In defense of raskdog’s view the ‘been married’ gays do seem to have alot more in their lives in terms of life experiences and immediate family and I can see how them complaining would frustrate the person who longs for these things but because of a sense of integrity in this area they refuse to persue it. It’s like the guy with the chocolate icecream complaining it isn’t strawberry while the other guy has to eat brussel sprouts (since we seem to be big on metaphores at the moment).

But, that said, as a Christian we need to empathise with all people and like Maggie said marriage brings its own set of problems. I have also discovered that the wedding does not the marriage make. Married life is apparently not always as fun and happy as the wedding day. It’s probably unfair to compare the best of marriage to the worst of being single. in the end I don’t think any of us are as thankful as we should be for the things we have and we all complain too much about the things we don’t. Maybe everyone of us needs to get over ourselves and stop comparing oour circumstances in life to other peoples. We tend to compare our insides to other peoples outsides. We have no idea what some people go through married or otherwise, what you see on the outside is rarely an accurate depiction of the inside.

well this thread took off. You’ll have to forgive my lack of posting over the next few weeks as there is much to be done as we move towards MG.

As a gay man who was married for 16 years here are some thoughts.

1. I am grateful for the 16 years of marriage, incredibly supportive wife and companion, two beautiful girls and wonderful memories of family times. I feel very blessed for that.

2. What was hard? The internal dissonance is often more extreme if you are G&L, married and Christian than if you are single because your commitment to God, your partner and children……then of course there is the whole family/in-laws connections add additional pressures. You have so many people to please and you really do want to do the right thing. Even G&L’s who have not acted on their same sex attraction go through a great deal of internal torment it seems.

3. I think possibly the hardest thing was that in deciding to be true to ourselves and honest with everyone else means we will hurt the people we love most in the world. You have no guarantee of how they will react initially or what the long term effects will be. That’s why many remain closeted for so long. It’s a tough decision to make.

4. A well known preacher, whose Dad was gay, but believing that being married was better…. said to me recently, “Well if my Dad hadn’t been married then I wouldn’t be here and if you hadn’t been married you wouldn’t have your girls” as if this made it all alright.

My response to that was “Well I am grateful for everything in my life the good and the bad. But the public scandal your Dads exposure brought was almost completely devastating for you and your children……and possibly never resolved. I wonder if your Dad knew what he knows now if he would make the same decision again. And when I saw the pain, confusion and shame I’d caused my wife and children, I wished that we had never gone down the path of marriage. After many years I walked away resolved but I wonder if this is the case for my ex wife and children.

Of course, for many of us, being gay, lesbian or bisexual in a heterosexual marriage was not a choice of intentional deception. Our marriages were the result of the pressure to conform and do the right thing. Some of us grew up in a society where homosexuality was considered a perversion or psychological illness. A few of us remember the days when it was a criminal offence for two men to have sex. When we married, we did so believing it was the right thing to do and expecting it would change what we perceived was faulty within us. Was the current knowledge on sexual orientation available to us then, our choices would have been different.

Had I been born 50 years earlier than 1951, I would have stayed in the marriage and never come out. Had I been born 50 years later, 2001 I would never enter a heterosexual marriage but accept my homosexuality as being normal. People that are or have been in heterosexual marriages have been on the fault line of a change in social consciousness.

Of course, for many of us, being gay, lesbian or bisexual in a heterosexual marriage was not a choice of intentional deception. Our marriages were the result of the pressure to conform and do the right thing. Some of us grew up in a society where homosexuality was considered a perversion or psychological illness. A few of us remember the days when it was a criminal offence for two men to have sex. When we married, we did so believing it was the right thing to do and expecting it would change what we perceived was faulty within us. Was the current knowledge on sexual orientation available to us then, our choices would have been different

.

I had that same pressure to conform. I grew up in an organisation(the Logos Foundation) that was extremely homophobic and was definitely considered a perversion and psychological illness. Having said that, my homosexuality is so pervasive that I just don’t know how to relate to a woman beyond the friendship level. I always wonder how a gay man who is married manages to get it up in bed. My thoughts is that man leans more towards bixexuality than homosexuality.

AVB wrote:

We have a guy in our F2B who has had a similar experience to you that affected him quite severely in his life. You can see him interviewed on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4DIb8VTp3k

I applaud Barry for his openess and honesty in sharing such personal things about his life. I wish you all the best Barry as you move ahead in your journey.

As for the church and people he was involved with, Im astonished but not surprised and saddened that too many churches are busy keeping people away from God by their attitudes and Pharasaical approaches. How can anyone get to know Jesus when the people who are meant to be representing him are no better than a kitchen spoon on a mine site. Its a shame we dont have a judicial board to arrest people who traumatise people in the church.

A child should not be indoctrinated into one way of seeing the world. Rather they should be encouraged to ask questions and investigate for themselves. Then when they are older they can make an informed decision.

A nice idea, but I would argue that ALL children tend to take their views of the world from their parents. The fact that some of those world-views are labelled as ‘religious’ and some are not doesn’t really make much difference.