Same Sex Unions/marriages a History of.

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Joined in 2006
March 4, 2008, 10:41

I suppose it all comes back to what people view our r’ships to be regardless of religion. Regardless of any religious beliefs people still marry, so how are we viewed? As two people or two abominations? As two seriously dating consenting adults or two people just fooling around and wannabe’s? As two adults in love or the cut offs of society trying to fit in?

The only way people as a whole will eventually change their minds is if they can see that we can and do live out our lives as any heterosexual couple would and that really it isnt pornographic in nature or a rebellion to anything but unfortunately there are still too many people who go too far in their assumptions as to what it could lead to and what they think it could lead to doesnt even make any sense and actually violates certain human rights anyhow or animal rights at that, which protect the person or animal. It will stir the pot for sure if we can have civil unions at least but honestly, its sad to think that society views us with such little regard if they can think that we can be classed along with certain things that have been mentioned and so because of us these things will also become legal.

Joined in 2007
March 4, 2008, 12:09

My post WASN’T ABOUT whether or not these things will become law if same-sex marriage does, thats a political question of which I have no interest. My point was you use the SAME argument to negate people marrying animals or underage children as conservatives do about same-sex couples marrying. Namely that it is immoral and violates rights. Who’s to say if it is moral? Christianity? No way because thats out the window as soon as you legalize same-sex marriage! In the end if one does not use a system of morality to legislate what is moral and what isn’t our world works on a postmodern theoretical basis that says “let everyone do whatever is right for THEM” for some people marrying underage is presumed right and no one can contradict them because then they would be using a systematized moral basis.

Your right about the rights argument but lets face facts, our rights are progressive, they change. At the moment the ‘traditional marriage’ is a protected right in Australia, that will change in the future and rights will eventually be extended to gay people I have no doubt. There is no reason why rights could not be extended to underage marriage or polygmy in our progressive system if there is no moral or ethical backing to stop them.

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
March 4, 2008, 12:38

I think the the ‘thin edge of the wedge’ is a very hurtful if not offensive argument to those same sex couples who love each other deeply, have been together for years, live in a monogamous relationship.

These kind of arguements, that are often brought out by the extreme Christian political groups, do little to help the debate except to make it more emotional than logical.

Heterosexuals don’t have perfect marriages. Either are our relationships perfect. But when two people say they want to make promises of exclusivity and longevity (same or opposite sex) its unjust to deny them that opportunity. If the churches want to make it exclusive then go ahead……(but they’d better make sure they live up to the ideal )…..but in essence it is a civil ceremony.

Joined in 2007
March 4, 2008, 16:50

Sorry Sandy, but exactly what has happened in Canada that is so bad? I’ve not read anything about the Canadian experience that is particularly negative.

And re Jane Elliott: she does the workshops with adults all the time now, and gets the same basic result. You tell people that they’re dirt, it affects them. You tell people that they’re valuable, it affects them. It’s got nothing to do with ‘blaming others’ and everything to do with the fact that humans are by nature relational. We care about and listen to what others say about us, whether we like it or not.

I don’t see how the arguments against marrying children and animals are the same as the arguments concerning same-sex marriage. To return to the UN human rights documents, it’s a requirement that marriage occurs with the free consent of both parties. Children are generally not considered to have the capacity to consent to many things – that’s why, legally, we make a distinction between children and adults (although 16-year-olds CAN marry in this country, by the way). And animals certainly can’t provide the necessary consent.

That’s certainly a completely different situation to two adults who both decide they want to marry, but choose someone of the ‘wrong’ gender. Not saying you can’t argue against it, but it’s not the same argument.

Polygamy… well, sure, maybe it will happen. It’s been common enough in history. But the only way the same-sex marriage is a ‘thin end of a wedge’ is in the same way that every OTHER expansion of acceptable relationships has been: marriages between different races, or marriages between different classes for that matter. Each one brings its own issues and arguments.

Joined in 2007
March 4, 2008, 18:57

You know what? Your totally right. Forget whatever it was that I said 😳

Joined in 2006
March 4, 2008, 20:07

This has been quite a topic for discussion. Its certainly been very interesting and informative. Im sorry if it has pushed some tender buttons for some, as it has at times for me. I hope we are all ok tho. As long as we can still be considerate of one another then thats wonderful, I do think we are an awesome lot you know 😀

Anthony Venn-Brown
Joined in 2005
March 4, 2008, 23:06


You started it Maggie…….got a bit out of control didn’t it.

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

Dove Snuggler
Joined in 2007
March 4, 2008, 23:36


Kit has requested that his post to Sandy be deleted.

Just for everyone notice……you can always delete and edit your own posts. When you are logged in you will see the Reply with quote button Edit button Delete botton and IP in the top right hand corner of your post.

from Anthony

Joined in 2007
March 5, 2008, 01:45

Sometimes its really hard to get our heads around same sex marriage and all that… for some people they can grasp it but for others there are heaps of issues.

I can see where Sandy is coming from and I understand it too… my partner believes that marriage between two men is not biblical or is he using that as an excuse (giggles). Been together for so long… my only worries is making sure that things are in place for him should anything happen to me. I will need to organise/hire a lawyer to help me through the paperwork to ensure that all is in place.

My mother and siblings have more rights than my partner. They can make decisions without me consent and override my partner. I worry because my family are not as accepting as my partner’s family. His family treats me like his partner were as my family have no respect for my partner.

So marriage seems to be the answer for most of us in same sex attraction and can experience what it is like to be married. Hmmm

Ok gotta hit the bed. Good night.


Joined in 2008
March 5, 2008, 05:21

Ive been with my partner now for two years. I see that word a lot in these posts when someone is refering to their other half…. partner.

It sounds so cold and calculated. My partner. Like I am in business or something. But there really isnt any other term I can use to discribe my relationship with my Joseph. “Boyfriend” to me is so fleeting and temporary. “roommate/friend” (which I use a lot because thats the only way I can talk about my other half being in the military) is so platonic and distant. So, Im stuck with the term “partner” I hate that. I would love to say, “My Husband Joe” but I cant because we are not legally married. I suppose I could call him that anyways, but it woud take all the sincerity and meaning out of the name “husband”. Think about the weight you put on someones relationship when they refer to their other half as their boy/girlfriend, as opposed to their husband/wife.

Husband and Wife is the ultimate name you give your ‘partner’ in life to show the world that this special someone of yours is the only one for you and that the two of you are permanently bonded together.

I read through all the posts and heard all the arguments for what was a “right” and the differnet types of “human rights” and what not. Could we not think about it this way…..

What category of “human rights” is the right to love another?

Should that not be a basic fundamental human right given to all of us?

Can you imagine a world where we were not allowed the right to Love?

In my oppinion, marraige in todays society is THE way of communicating to the world around them this fundamental “right” of theirs and they in turn are rewarded for it! Marraige is celebrated as the joining together of two lives. It is rewarded with all differnt kinds of privleges.

Taxes, wills, insurance, all different kinds of benifits. Your “husband” or “wife” has the final say over you if your a vegitable in the hospital. He/she is the benificiary of all your belongings when you die.

Society itself has given the “spouse” a lot of privleges and power if you think about it.

So being in a “life long relationship” and being in a “marraige” are related but entirely differnt if you think about it. I have many differnt “life long relationships” with my family and friends. Its actually being “married” to someone that sets apart that person from the rest of the “life long relationships” that I have.

So back to the question at hand, is gay marraige a right? Or a just a privilige? It HAS to be a fundamental right! Marraige isnt just some silly little cerimony that the gays feel they need to be afforded. There is so much more behind the “right” to marry.

I experienced this first hand when my “partner” and I bought a condo together. I could not believe the discrimination we faced. If we walked into a home as a gay couple we were met with a hostile attitude. If we walked into a place as business partners the situation was completly different. How eager the realitors and mortgage brokers were to help out that newly weded couple looking to buy thier first home, but two men? No way! The differnence? The newly wed’s were of course married! I could not count how many times I was told about all the benifits I could recieve if I was going into a mortgage and was married.

Here is another great example of the difference that married couples have over non married couples. I am in the military, when I was married, my wife was afforded every benifit that I had. If I was deployed on the other side of the world and something happened to her or in her family, I could go home on “emergency leave” no questions asked.

Right now I am on detatchment in El Salvador. If something were to happen to Joe, even if he was a girl, I would not be able to do anything. Why? Because he is not in my service record as a dependant or my spouse. Whats worse if they found out that my emergency was dealing with my MALE partner I would be kicked out of the military, no questions asked. Is that justice? Is that fair?

How can there be an argument that marraige is not a right? How do you define the term “right”? Isnt a “right” something that you are NOT allowed to be denied?

To me the majority of socities view on gay marraige is hypocritical. Almost anyone would say that I can not be discriminated against because of my sexual orientation. That I can not be denied employment or health benifits because Im gay. Why? Because they are my “rights”. How then is marraige any different?

A lot of people in society today, even some in the Christian community, are willing to accept the homosexual person, but mention marraige to them and the gays have gone to far! That gets so frustrating sometimes.

The bible defines marraige between a man and a woman yes, Ive read genisis, but it doesnt say any where that two men can not marry. If it does, somebody please show me. This is the only reason Christians today are so against gay marraige or gays in general. They are basing their belief on what they believe and interpret the bible to say about what it means to be gay in the first place.

I just do not understand how we can even argue about whether or not marraige is even a right, gay or straight. Ofcourse it is!

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