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Told my friend I was lesbian today

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Mags
 
Joined in 2012
July 15, 2012, 17:20

i told a friend i was lesbian, she said what does God say about that.


"God's word says we are to hate the sin but love the sinner. what you are is a sin. what makes you think you are lesbian. you can't be lesbian unless you have a sexual relationship. that is what a lesbian is. someone that has a sexual relationship with another woman."


is this the case or not.


very hurt and confused.

help please

forestgrey
Chapter Leader
Joined in 2008
July 15, 2012, 21:07

Hey, Mags – G'day! There will be others on this Forum who can give you a much more detailed answer than I can right now. You friend thinks she's right, BUT she's wrong. Probably not maliciously so. She's just ignorant of the facts And getting into an argument at this stage is counter-productive.

In simple terms, if you know you are same-sex attracted, that makes you a homosexual ! (Just like me and many others on this Forum.) Despite what some Christians say, nowhere does the Bible condemn the fact that a person can have a same-sex attraction – i.e., be a homosexual. Some English translations erroneously use the word 'homosexual' to imply that just being a 'homosexual' is condemed. But, one needs to go back to the original languages to understand the truth. Fortunately for people like you and me, there are learn-ed Christian scholars who have checked and found the modern thinking to be flawed when the original language is translated properly. [Of course, there are some other Christian scholars who maintain the opposite. They have "painted themselves into a corner" by refusing to accept (even just the remote possibility) that their view may be wrong. Their pride gets in the way.]

And, of course, modern science has established that being same-sex attracted is a valid situation for a small percentage of the population.

By the way, some of the bible passages which people use to justify their belief that homosexuality is either wrong or not even possible (we call these "The Clobber Verses") are not even about homosexuality per se when properly investigated, and others refer to possible homosexual acts by straight people as part of pagan practice and corrupted sexual ethics.

Hang in there. Some good advice will no doubt appear here from others. You also might find some help in the resources section of this website. God bless ~ david

Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
July 15, 2012, 21:14

Hi Mags

So if we follow this person's argument, that means that in order to be a heterosexual, you have to have sex with the opposite sex. So what about those who choose to be celibate, are too young for sex or just not in a sexual relationship through circumstances not of their choosing? Does that make them any less who they are? No it doesn't. They can still be heterosexual and not in a relationship. And so it is with homosexual people. They can still be gay when not in relationship.

Even if lesbianism was a sin (and I don't believe for one moment that it is), we are more than that. And unfortunately, when people say "Love the sinner hate the sin", they are making a judgment about someone else and judgments have a way of feeling all-encompassing and limiting when on the receiving end of them. This is why judging others is not helpful or something we are called to do. What also often happens is that hatred of the so-called sin gets mixed up or projected onto the poor person supposedly committing the sin. So the person receiving the message can feel that it's not the sin being judged but their very self. In my opinion, the message conveyed is: 'Let's judge or even hate the 'sinner' and dress it up as hating the sin.' That can make those in judgment feel holy and it's certainly a lot easier than examining their own stuff. So they'd never admit to hating a person because that's clearly not of God. However their actions (even in subtle ways, like avoiding someone) convey things other than love, such as fear, dislike, misunderstanding, harassment, abuse, rejection, anger and even hatred. Of course, your friend may not mean to communicate any of that, but sadly, that's what comes up for me when I hear that tired old saying. I believe it's a pious, condescending way of saying: "I'm better than you", and that's not of God – it's the very opposite in fact. Words are so powerful, we need to use them to exhort and encourage. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" does not make me feel uplifted or loved. It weighs me down and puts a block between myself and the other.

I agree with forestgrey when he says that your friend probably means well and that it's a waste of time getting into an argument or discussion about this. People are afraid of what they do not understand and fear is difficult to reason with. They follow what they've heard, often thinking they're doing the right thing (I've been guilty of that too) without doing diligent studies of the bible in original languages and context. Just know that your friend can have her beliefs and you can have yours. We are all on a journey of learning and at different places along the way. I think it's important to focus on being loving and spending more time with loving, positive people who don't condemn you. I think it's also good to do your own studies and see what sits well with you rather than being swayed by what anyone else says.

Blessings,

Ann Maree

ShadowBoxer
Moderator
Joined in 2005
July 15, 2012, 22:13

Mags


Its fascinating how many people think they are experts on this when in fact they really have no credentials or experience…..


And just as once people were CERTAIN that the bible taught that the earth was flat (because it refers to the four corners of the earth) so now people cling to beliefs that are equally ignorant and wrong and are so sure they are right they dont bother to even check their knoweldge. Thats human nature – we all do it sometime in our lives.

And when people do it to us when we come out – its hurtful – but they are wrong.


So lets put it in context

– where does the word lesbian appear in the bible ?

What does appear in the bible are

1) WE ARE ALL SINNERS

2) DONT JUDGE OTHERS

3) Many Many verses that talk about the sins of deceit. Of arrogance. Of not looking after the poor and needy. (These are actually also listed as the actual Sins of Sodom)

4). Despite a focus on sexual sins – the bible lists a prostitue as honourable – and in another case – lists a woman as pretending to be a prostitute and having sex with a man who is not her husband as a good thing for her to have done.

(It doesnt OK adultery but it does not condemn all SEX quite the way people would like to make out)


So to recap – The Bible teaches us – We are all sinners – Dont judge other peoples Sins – worry about your own sins. (cast the beam out of your own eye before you worry about the speck in your neighbours eye – and he who is without sin – cast the first stone etc etc)


I know that doesnt help the hurt – but what I hope it it makes it clear that your friends attitude is just plain wrong.

(Of course nowadays – there is evidence that the bible never said that loving homosexual relationships were wrong anyway – and that it was teaching that temple sex (sex worshiping idols and foreign Gods – often with same sex partners ) was wrong and at best theres only 8 (now controversial) verses anyway – so it ranks as one of the smaller sins compared to many others – in terms of the amount of time the bible spends on it but thats an aside for now. ) Many people resist change – but they resisted changing the teaching the world was round. That women should vote and that Slavery was wrong. Some will resist this but the Truth will win out as always.


HUGS



sarab
 
Joined in 2011
July 15, 2012, 22:40

Hi Mags,

I am so sorry that you have had this response from your friend.

It was brave of you to come out to your friend – this is a big step – and I am so sorry your honesty and integrity was met with what amounts to a lack of grace.

Many gay people will say they "knew" from childhood that they were gay ( although perhaps at that stage not yet having the language for it).While these children may not yet have had a sexual encounter or relationship – their sexual orientation is clear. Your friend is simply incorrect in this assumption that engaging in sex determines ones sexual orientation. Even for those of us who perhaps don't have this strong sense of sexuality from childhood (i am one of these people) – It is naive of your friend to assume that sexual orientation can only be determined by sexual activity.

As for the "hate the sin love the sinner" rhetoric – all I want to say to you is that God loves us abundantly and extravagantly. Far more than our judgemental friends may at times. Focus on that Mags. God made you, God knows you inside and out… H/she loves you – pure and simple.

Hope you have a good week.

Sarab 🙂



Lockyergal
 
Joined in 2012
July 16, 2012, 10:20

Hi Mags

I went through what you are going through just a few months ago (see my Posts)

Fear not God loves you . Jesus promised never to forsake you The devil will accuse you on everything and anything to get you trapped in a spirit of fear. But Jesus has defeated the Devil He has set the captives free


Remind you friend of this verse Matthew 12:37 and how what she said has hurt you

For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.

King James 2000 Bible


By being Justified — we are being freed from all blame, we are without guilt and we are shown or proven to be right. Condemned means — to be pronounced unfit for use, guilty. By our own words we can be free from blame and without guilt, or we can pronounce ourselves guilty and unfit for the use of God.


Be encouraged You do not have to justify yourself to your friend The battle is the Lord's. Leave it with HIim

Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."



Sophia Chokhmah
 
Joined in 2011
July 16, 2012, 14:57

All excellent replies…I agree with everyone. Also it is "love the sinner, and hate your own sin" (as far as I know)…Please don't allow false guilt and shame/blame to get you down. Blessings 🙂

Ash
 
Joined in 2012
July 16, 2012, 15:53

"the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace… against such things there is no sin."


that passage gets me through when I hear things like that.


Stay strong. It gets better.

Ann Maree
 
Joined in 2008
July 16, 2012, 18:46

Hi Ash

You said:


"the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace… against such things there is no sin."


Yes that's excellent and beautiful in it's simplicity. So in other words, things that are of God will produce love, joy and peace. And this is what I aim for in my own life, to produce these qualities, and to be with others who are like-minded. Then I know I'm on the right track. 🙂

Blessings,

Ann Maree

J
 
Joined in 2012
July 17, 2012, 09:53

"the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace… against such things there is no sin."


I was reading that exact quote in my bible last night :O everyone here has pretty much summed up the excellent advice, so I will just say this.


Those who mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind. We're all going on this journey of self discovery and it's definitely OK to be yourself. In fact, the other day I read something where God WANTS us to be ourselves. If we conform to society by letting them tell us how we are supposed to walk, talk and feel, then we've lost the whole point of being a human. We all sin, it's just a matter of whether we're willing to tell the truth (God being the master of truth) or lie about it (Satan being the master of lies). So good on you for telling your friend, that takes a huge amount of courage, and if they don't understand, they aren't worth your time. Your sexuality is only ONE small part of who you are, and if people hate you for how you feel, it is their problem and their own insecurities getting to them.


There is a song I found on youtube the other day, it's from a band called 'Temet Nosce', which is also latin for 'know thyself'. In the music video you see people walking around with blindfolds, because they haven't opened up their eyes to the fact that we may all be different, but we are also ALL the same. We all bleed the same, and God doesn't hate, he just loves. If there is one thing people should take from the bible it is to LOVE others, not hate. There are over 2,000 references in the bible of loving people for who they are, and only 6-8 phrases about possible same sex attraction – and they have all been taken completely out of context. Anywho, here is the video 🙂


Temet Nosce – Create Your Own Life [The music starts at 0:50 seconds]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDfAYUwUqjs


We are the lovers of this world, and we can set an example of how we should all be treated.


Another few music videos which I personally love:


Sugababes – Ugly [This song speaks of how we are all different but the same and that people who don't like you for WHO YOU ARE are the ugly ones]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nD2vZfdzGg


Pink – Perfect [A song with the meaning that it's OK to be yourself, you are PERFECT, and anyone else telling you otherwise don't understand the true meaning of love]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BIye98Ryic


Hope it helps Mags, and know that I'm with you, God is with you, we are ALL with you and you are LOVED.


Stay strong hun and God bless,


~Jordan
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